Breasts and Breast Feeding and Sex and Body Image and Relationships...

[swottybetty]

I can't promise my post is going to be any more concise than its title. There will be a lot of waffle ahead, if you read on thanks for indulging me. Keen to hear about other peoples' experiences.

I am preg with no. 2. With dd, i made a half hearted attempt at BF that lasted about a fortnight. I had noy wanted to BF and had approached it on a "take every day as it comes" basis. It weirded me out less than I thought it would, but hurt a lot more, Given that I never really wanted to do it in first place, the pain was enough to stop me in my tracks.

I want to give it a better go next time. I think MN and being around other BF mums has normalised it for me a lot. There are two other big reasons I want to give it a go. Firstly I am a bit of a twat about food and my "real" milk seems now to be a more natural food to give dd. Second reason is much harder to right down, but it is because I feel like I will be a better mum if I BF.

Anyhoos, that's just the context - ultimatley it what makes me NOT want to BF that I most want to hear from other people about.

I don't want to BF because I can't come to terms with losing my breasts as a sexual thing, as part of the way I look. As my fave part of my body. This is stupid cause even without BF they are really different after pregnancy.

I cringe when I hear about nipples toughening up, breasts filling and emptying. I feel so embarressed to write that but its true. Last preg I could not look at my boobs after about 7 months and already I do not want to see them in their new shape. I really didnt want to look at dd (or pump when i expressed) last time.

After having dd lost loads of weight quickly and worked out really hard. Save for my breasts, I looked great. I have found sex near impossible ever since tho. Its not just my breasts but also my fanny i feel so different with. I really would not know how to have sex now. I certainly cannot imagine that BF'ing for any period of time would make that any easier.

So am i just hugely immature? Did other people not feel like they were making a choice between being two dif kinds of women? Or do others feel like they did make a choice but that it was OK?

DH was not hugley comfortable with me BF - his family all vocally anti-BF. But i think that mainly this stems from me. I do not have a prob with six months dedicated to my new LO and feeding (and therefore no sex) if i thought that at the end i could get my old boobs back....

I don?t think you are immature; you are a product of our society.

It is pregnancy that changes your breasts, not breastfeeding and it?s not always for the worse. I certainly haven?t lost anything, I was an F cup before I?ve just bought my first J! My Mum had three kids and is a G and looks like she?s had a boob job

Your breasts can be dual function, I am now tandeming my 2 ½ year old and my newborn and my partner still loves my breasts, it?s never been a problem to us. There are lots of parts of our bodies that are dual purpose; they have an everyday function and a sexual one, and we forget about what we do everyday when we have sex. My favourite example is do you think what you?ve done with your mouth when you kiss your mother?

If you?re planning on feeding only until 6 weeks then sex shouldn?t be affected anyway as you?re supposed to wait (three weeks on Friday?)

No one should be offended by your feelings about your own body, please don?t worry about that.

Laumiere feeding a premature baby needs a lot of extra help and isn?t easy. I have a 31-weeker and now a 35-weeker, both have been a challenge, even the 35-weeker has had problems. My HV is rubbish with premature babies (can?t comment on the rest of her work) and I?m very grateful to the hospital and NN-MW for all their help because I don?t think I could have done as well as I had. I think far too many premature mothers are let down when it comes to feeding.

Lizzy, isn?t it amazing how people forget where EBM comes from and how much work is involved?

mamadoc has made a very good point btw swotty..... the first 6 weeks are definitely not a time when you feel sexy or attractive. they're exhausting, messy in so many horrible ways and bf-ing during those first few weeks, especially with your first is fairly unglamourous and often painful.

but breastfeeding isn't like that long term, please don't assume that feeding a 3/4/5/6 month old will be the same experiance. your breasts learn how much milk to produce so stop leaking, your babies tummy grows so it feeds more efficiently meaing shorted feeds less often, you get more sleep so feel generally more human.

no one feels like sex in the first few weeks (well, some do but they really are in the vast majority!), don't assume that because you couldn't contemplate sex while feeding last time that you wouldn't if you continued for longer!

i can't remember which poster made the comment about ff men being less comfortable with bf-ing but i just have to say, that's not the case with dp at all, his mother never bf any of her 3 and he had barely even come accross the concept of bf-ing before we had dd it was so alien to him. but from day one he has been hugely supportive of me feeding our children. he has never questioned it for a second, always backed me up and lets me know how proud he is for what i do for them. he finds me just as attractive now after almost 5 years of continuous pregnancy and bf-ing as he did before, if anything he seems more attracted to certain parts of me up til a few weeks ago i was still feeding 2.5 year old ds (well technically i think i still am but he hasn't fed in a few weeks as he's cross that there's no milk due to my preg ) and dp has been hugely supportive and never questioned that decision or made me feel bad about it.

i don't think it's fair to presume that men will automatically be pro ff just because that's how they were fed

'but they really are in the vast minority'

I agree PinkTulips, DH was FF and he is so pro BF as to be quite anti-FF.

swottybetty, I think many many women feel like this.

fwiw my situation with DS was very similar to yours (no bf role models and FIL who was always telling DH to give DS a bottle). I was very much going to see how it went but ended up bf for 7 months.

I think the sad thing for you is that bf has got caught up with your own views of your sexuality which are going to change whether you bf or not. Every sexual part of your body develops a different function once you are pregnant and after you have had birth. When I was first pregnant my husband (completley out of character) got dragged to a lap dancing club by his mates. I went ballistic, not because I have any real issue with it normally, but because it was so symbolic of my body's new role. Breasts now for feeding, vaginas designed for things to come out of them not go it!!

DH was not the type to find pregnant women sexy and was quite squeamish about the whole thing. When I was breastfeeding I think we both felt they were off limits (mainly because I had to keep my bra on as they leaked!). Also I certainly feel that our sex life didn't get back to normal until I had stopped feeding.

But in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't have swapped that time for the world and I thoroughly enjoyed feeding my baby.

I think we all have to accept that sexual relationships are going to change as time goes by and has children come along. My breasts aren't as perky as they used to be, I could clench a pencil under my tummy and my c-section scar is not high on anybody's list of desirables. But then again, I wonder if DH worries quite so much that his beer belly is developing handsomly and he doesn't have the stamina he used to.

again - thanks all. this is interesting to read. i am going to try to summarise what i am getting from all of this.

* bodies change post-preg and childbirth regardless of how you feed your baby. whatsmore, the way you feel about your body changes a lot - it's an emotional as well as physical thing.

obvs i knew that, but its still hard isnt it? i guess i am finding it a bit harder than other people and a lot of that is focussed on boobs. i think part of the boob thing is linked to their changed role, but also its cause i see any change as irreversible in a way that sorting my lardy ass and thighs post preg wasnt. but as everyone has said, things change, you change, this is not a feeding issure really.

* some of you didnt feel a conflict and that seems to be more true of those of you who fed for longer or who have had more kids?? Some of these people feel sexier, or certainly more womanly when they are feeding or becuase of what they have learnt about themselves and their bodies. these people have supportive partners, who love 'em and their boobs regardless.

i am envious of you guys... if nothing else you sound a lot more easy going than me . like i said, i think dh would follow my lead if i was laid back about it all. i think your stories and experiences are positive ones and i am glad you have been generous enough to take time and write them down. I guess i find them less useful tho that those who have shared some of my concerns.

* Quite a few people have understood why i feel conflict and have felt a degree of empathy. examples include people talking about their boobs being off limit during sex when BF'ing cause of leaking, their partners not being as supportive as could be, or people talking about being apprehensive (or their partners being apprehensive) before they started BF'ing. These people have all said that the rewards from BFing def make it all worthwhile.

I thank you guys for talking to me with honesty! I have found teh stuff everyone has had to say very interesting.

* BUT ((takes cover)) this is not a represntative selection, is it? i guess that is just in the nature of this kind of discussion. I wish some FFers whose decision not to BF was at least partly cause of this would come talk to me too. I guess i would also appreciate people who did BF but felt like me would come talk too. I guess there is a lack of balance here and it makes it hard to digest the helpful BFing comments because they dont feel like they are in perspective. am i making sense?

Noone has come on and said they still havent come to terms with the changed nature of their relationships with their boobs again a year after they stopped feeding. My guess here is that thats not cause these people dont exist but because they would not want to discourage someone from BFing?? (Incidentally i did once read a post by a woman who said she would not do it again for this reason) Its a form of self-censorship driven by worthy motivations. And I guess most (if not all??) of these people would do it all again regardless. Even so, it would be interesting to hear more from people like me. the BF rates are low in the UK - I dont believe all of its to do with reasons such as people wanting to share the task of feeding with their partners, or lack of supportt from HCPs.

* Finally - why am I brave?? Because I may appear selfish to put self image and vanity before dc's welfare? Or to talk about such intimate stuff?

Swotty,
I BF for 4 months before starting mixed feeding and then swapping to ff from 8 months.
For me it was not just the BF that effected the way I felt about my body and my sexuality, it was the whole process from conception on.
I'm not generally a tactile person - I'm not cuddly, huggy etc - for me that kind of physical contact was pretty much reserved for sex, and pre-babies we had a FANTASTIC sex life.
I simply found that the constant physicality of pregnancy and motherhood (including feeding) was so overwhelming that I simply didn't feel the same desire to be touched by DH any more. I guess tiredness also plays a part, but it has also deteriorated since I got pregnant for the second time, totally accidentally. I actually felt angry at sex for putting me in that position - not that that makes any real sense, but it was how I felt.
I bounced back pretty well physically after DS although boobs aren't what they once were, but I feel more like my body is a work horse rather than a show pony these days and I have to struggle not to allow this to effect my relationship.
Wow , was good to get that off the chest really!

" Noone has come on and said they still havent come to terms with the changed nature of their relationships with their boobs again a year after they stopped feeding. My guess here is that thats not cause these people dont exist but because they would not want to discourage someone from BFing?? "

i cant speak from personal experince here as i haven't stopped feeding yet. But i dont feel i have a relationship with my boobs, they are party of me not a seperate thing i relate to . Of course they look different to 5 years ago, but that's because of age and pg, not bf. But my hair and face are also different, everything about us changes over time. OUr relationsips with our partners change. I dont "blame" bf for these changes. it was my choice - soemthing that was inmportant to me because of my childrens health and i'm glad i have persevered through the problems. I can't change our family history of atopic diease, CHD, diabetes and obesity but i cant lower their risk. for life. i feel very good about that

having to wear a bra during sex (although i dont as i dont leak) woudl be a small price to pay for that for me

i wonder if your " issues" ( if you dont mind me calling them that) are as much to do with coping with change/getting older and the changes that happen with pg and childbirth, and you are focussing on bf?

i wrote that you are brave to talk about this on Mn as you risked getting flamed for being selfish and immature. its good that there has been such a reasonable and tolerant discussion of these complex and personal issues

PT is right. So often people make six weeks their target and decide that they're not enjoying it, they're still leaking all the time, not sleeping, their sex life is affected etc that they stop around then. The thing is stopping or not generally will have the same affect as that's when things settle down, you stop leaking, baby sleeps more etc and it becomes more enjoyable it's also around the time that you start feeling like sex again. If you stop then you stop leaking (which would have happened anyway) baby sleeps through, you start enjoying your baby more and you feel more like sex.

The first six weeks most people don't feel like sex, you're probably bleeding through most of it, maybe still a little sore, worn out from looking after the baby even men can take awhile before they feel like it again. Giving up or carrying on won't change any of that.

As long as you're not feeding the baby during sex I don't see how it would interfere.
Having a baby has made me feel more like a woman. I love my body because it has grown and nourished this beautiful, healthy baby boy.
I think of boobs as sensual parts of my body. They're for me, DS and DH. I wouldn't be happy thinking of them as sexual things divorced from motherhood. And how can sex and motherhood be separated anyway?

I didn't feel like sex for six months after dd . Dh was very understanding, especially as he was exhausted too. I actually felt quite unsexy, except, rather starlingly, in the few days immediately after the birth, when sex was completely off limits. We did it a couple of times before 6 months, and by that I think I literally mean twice. For me, this was not about breasts per se, so maybe this isn't helpful to you, but I have found that with breastfeeding my libido is low until my periods return, when I become, um, rampant for a short while and then settle down . Nature's way perhaps? Vaginal dryness can be a side-effect of round the clock breastfeeding that's not talked about much.

I wonder if there may be a difference in the experience of someone who has breastfed for months and/or years vs someone who's only experienced the first weeks. Sore nipple and leaky breasts are a passion-killer for me, but those experiences only account for a tiny proportion of my time as a breastfeeding mother.

I also wonder how different this libido thing is for mums who don't breastfeed, though? Tiredness is a passion killer, no matter how a baby is fed!

Somebody mentioned the physicality of pregnancy/motherhood. This was a TOTAL shock to me first time. I simply hadn't understood how much was physically involved, not just in pregnancy, but caring for and breastfeeding a baby and mothering toddlers. All the touching involved in breastfeeding all the time has been quite overwhelming for me at times too. My babies naturally stroke and fiddle with hair etc etc, and sometimes I just don't want any more caressing!

I've found my attitudes to all these issues have grown and shifted over the 3.5 years since I first became a mother. I doubt I will reach any final conslucions on any of them any time soon. 4 years ago I couldn't have imagined doing the deed with a baby sleeping in the same room .

Wastingmyeducation,
"And how can sex and motherhood be separated anyway? "
The pill did it for me! The mini-pill on the other hand ...

It's great that some people feel more sensual because of motherhood, but that doesn't help those of us who don't.

I'm not saying I used to feel like a walking sex bomb or anything, but these days my body feels completely functional and that, to me, is not sexy.

But there's a difference between sensual and sexual.
In our society everything sensual has been sexualised, food for instance, and I think that it means we miss out on sensuality as a result.
I'm just trying to offer some different ways of looking at it that might help.
And Bubbaluv, your body was functional before, it's just got more functions now.

Sex is a function. It's more fun than going to the loo but no more significant, physiologically.

And I am having functional sex these days. It is more fun than going to the loo, but that's not really how I want to judge my sex life I'm afraid.
My body may have been functional before, but that was not how I felt about it. It's like trading in your sports car for a volvo station wagon. It still gets your from A to B just like your sports car always did, but damn, it just doesn't feel the same - far more practical though!
I'm sure this is something I will get over (once the DCs are at school?) but in the mean time, it certainly helps to know that others are feeling the same way or similar.

I have no real idea why I started bfing except some vague idea that it was best and because that's what every single person I know (whose feeding choices I know about) has done. Plus laziness Since then, every single thing I've read about it has amazed me, and the fact that DD is piling on the pounds (she's 17 weeks and only a few oz off doubling her birth weight of 7 lb 12) makes me really proud

I hated how leaky I was/am. I cried a few times in the early days when I was squirting all over the sofa - I'm a bit OCD anyway, and having this sticky stuff that would turn sour just disgusted me. I still hate it getting on my clothes. But a couple of weeks ago I got a winter vomiting virus and spent two days in bed puking. I was terrified that DD would get it and felt really helpless just waiting to see whether she did or not. I was so grateful that I was bfing and could pass on my antibodies, and she didn't get it (though nor did DH, who passed on the offer of a shot of breastmilk ).

DH is totally supportive of me bfing but also (like me) not a fan of my milk. He's a bit freaked out by it going anywhere near him. My nipples are really sensitive - I hate them even chafing on my clothes when I'm getting a boob out for DD - and I did snap at him a bit yesterday when he reached out to stroke one I've only spent two nights without a bra since DD was born. In other words, they're a bit off-limits at the moment, but it's really not that long in the greater scheme of things.

So I can understand how you can be conflicted, even if not as much as you are. I'm working on it by educating myself (the "benefits" of bfing are a great motivator), giving it time (definitely less leaky now than I was three months ago) and making a conscious effort (I know it's illogical to be freaked out by my milk but not cows' milk!).

Hope that's some use

Thanks Tinksmum, wish I'd known about MN when I had DS1!

Swotty, there was a thread a few weeks ago about FF you might find interesting regarding why/why not.... I can't find it right now but it's in the archives.

Swotty, I'm very interested in the points you made about what's not been said in this discussion. It might be interesting if you made a similar post somewhere like the feeding forums on bounty or any other messageboard with a very different client base and compared the answers.

I do think that what this discussion shows is that women's experiences of breastfeeding are much more complex than they usually say. We've talked about some very intimate issues around sexuality and body image, helped in part that you have been very honest about the conflicts you feel and perceive around feeding, pregnancy and your family. That's brave, as is the fact that you have taken a lot of time to read others' posts and write your own thoughtful responses.

No problem, me too! My HV has no idea about premature babies and their growth patterns and I ended up supplementing to get her off my back. I told my NN-MW this week what happened and she was really cross because she had spent a long time helping me and I'd spent a long time in hospital trying to get established. My plans to exclusively breastfeed till 6 months were mix feed through NG for two weeks, breastfeed for 2.5 months, mix feed for 2.5 months, breastfeed for 1 month, start solids. If I had had MN back then I think that I would have done things differently.

It is amazing to hear some truly honest stories from women about these expereinces. I know I never expected to feel the way I do. I'm generally not hte type who gets squeamish or bothered by things - I'm usually pragmatic to an extreme, so my illogical reaction to my mothering expereinces has really thrown me.
However, for the record, I will be breastfeeding my DS2 who is due in April and I'm sure I will get the same sense of contented intimacy from it that I experienced the first time round.
Will def attempt to have a larger gap btwn DS2 and any further children so as to give myslef a chance to regroup better.
Fingers crossed!

i agree bubbaluv. i've found it really helpful - (you and anglepoise and grendle's posts good to read yesterday thank you).

there was a thread a while ago in which someone training to be a BF counsellor asked what expectant mums would want to know about BFing. There was a resounding call of we need to know about the pain! Everyone found that it shouldnt hurt thing really unhelpful. I think ignoring the fact that some (many women) may find the idea of feeding dificult for same reasons as me should be addressed too. Ignoring helps noone - i am really happy for those who never saw it as an issue, but to assume we're all like that is to do expectant mums a disservice IMHO.

I wanted to BF and it didn't work out with my first child. I didn't do it for long with the next two either and part of this was because once I had got over the disappointment of the first time not working out (and discovering that DD1 had no allergies unlike the rest of the bf family - including me and my own brother - so I relaxed about that side of it which is what drove me in the first place) - I was so relieved when the milk dried up and I no longer had the stuff all over my fingers and clothes all the time. I didn;t think there was anything sexy about it at all, although having children and the act of giving birth has made me feel the power of my body in a way that has nothing to do with sex and is very liberating emotionally. ( Although I don't want DH to see my wrinky tum in a bright light - but have 30's style slinky French knickers which cover that up and still make me feel glam.)

I didn't fed DS1 for long - a couple of weeks and then EBM for a while, then formula - and still felt I was letting him down but had difficult family stuff going on and had to work it all out. Formula was great for us, and so did much the same with DD2. We are a very allergenic family on both sides - eczema, peaches, asthma, eggs, shellfish, peanuts, hayfever, cats, horses etc and for some reason we are lucky and my three who had formula from one month onwards are all free of any allergies (although haven't tried DD2 with prawns yet). This is not a dismissal of the evidence that BF might lower risk of certain allergies - just that in my case the thing that most worried me was fine. So once I realised this I was delighted not to be BF - nice underwear, feeling I had myself back again after the pregnancy, feeling of being with DH without squirting watery sticky milk all over us. We started having sex again within a few weeks of the births. I felt my relationship with myself and with him was just as important for the happiness of our family and I think for me it was the right decision. I considered the whole family and my own sanity, not just me and the baby. If we have a fourth I would BF again for a short while but it would be purely duty - there was nothing pleasurable about it for me at all.

I think there must be something wrong with my milk as I don't find it sour or stinky or sticky. And it doesn't squirt anywhere

NormaJean I had a similar thing with DH and sex, I have very sensitive breasts at the best of times and the only way I could tolerate the sensations of BFing was to 'switch off' my sexual sensitivity, which I then missed horribly! It took at least 2 months after stopping breastfeeding DS before I felt that I wanted to have my boobs involved in sexual play again. I really envy women who don't have this problem!

Leeza I don't think everyone squirts/leaks but I am cursed/blessed with an overabundant supply, so things can get messy! It isn't sour or stinky when fresh, but it's milk so can obviously go off - I was emptying my bin recently and one of my disposable pads had started to go mouldy, which was a bit grim. I find it very sticky because it's high in lactose, but if you aren't getting it squirted all over your clothes/hands/laptop/DC then you might not have noticed. I'm sure that there's nothing wrong with your milk!