all ye women with slow-gaining babies... come and sympathise with Aitch here please...

[Aitch]

oh bloomin' heck. she's only put on an ounce and a half in 6 days.

I saw the message but can't reply due to workplace banning of FB and most other diversions (but not mn...yet

Aitch, just seen this. I think it's a case of hanging on in there, really do...the 'give ebm before breastfeeding' is highly questionable, not least becuase it comes from a person whose bf knowledge is prob not that great....

Aaargh.

Well as you know, and I have Been There and with the hindsight of experience my advice is that as long as you're happy with the the feeding, stick your fingers in your ears and think calm thoughts and carry on exactly as you were. She WILL gain weight - but probably only after she's properly over her cold.

(Had to edit this as originally I was advising you to "think clam thoughts" - however you're welcome to try that too if you think it'll help)

Just ruminating about this some more, and you know, this advice really worries me for 2 reasons:

1. Have they not realised that dd2's (previously fabulous) weight gain was inevitably going to slow down while she was unwell? ie, you can expect this to sort itself out as soon as she's better - without any special measures. Especially when those special measures could bugger up your supply, and

2. Are they not aware that the research evidence is pointing VERY strongly away from fattening babies up just for the sake of it - ie setting targets for weight gain instead of looking at the individual baby and her natural growth pattern.

There are some serious worries about getting well but slow-growing babies to pile on the pounds. So if someone's suggesting weight-gain measures and their only concern is the weight chart - not dd2 herself- I would really, really dig my heels in. I've a couple of papers you could wave at them if it comes to a fight over this - let me know.

Obviously if dd2 isn't well in herself then all the above goes out the window, but as I understand it this is all about the numbers, right?

she's well, i'm sure of it. seriously.

i caved again and gave her a 50ml top-up this afternoon (can't. help. it. not. strong. enough.) and she slept FOR HOURS and i couldn't wake her to feed.

what should i take from this? that she is underfed if asking for milk every 3 hours or that i knocked her out this afternoon.

Not sure I'd read too much into one long sleep, Aitch (though I do see why it's hard not to). Have you seen GP again?

DD was not prem but was slow to gain. I was advised to give ebm after bf, not before (I did top up with ebm in the evenings for a while due to hv guilt trip).

My main tactic with dd was tickling her feet to wake her up so she kept feeding, and waking her up during the night to bf. She gained about 2oz a week for months. Now she is 4yo, on the 75th centile for weight and nearly 100th centile for height...

Good luck with it

50ml top up might have zonked her. Wanting fed every 3 hours (or less) sounds really normal.

How old is she Aitch? My DD was 4lb8 born and only gained 8oz in the first four weeks. She dropped off the bottom of the chart. She struggled to BF at first cos she was so tiny. I used to feed her twin for a couple of mins first to get the milk flowing and then put her on... you could express before a feed to get the milk going for your LO. Don't give her formula unless YOU want to... ignore the HV. I was happy with my DD - she is 21 weeks now and still only 10lb12. She and her twin are both slow gainers now but I know they are healthy and don't even bother going to get them weighted too often now... better things to do.

When they were young I did give them EBM after their bath and then for 10pm feed cos I felt my milk was low then... you could express 1oz before first two feeds of the day and offer her that as a top-up later on in the day.

My HV also said to give ebm 'so you know how much she is taking' but I have never really understood how that works, cos it only shows what she is drinking, from a bottle, at that exact moment. But giving EBM later in the day did help me.

Aitch my DD was born at 30 +6 and weighed a tiny 2lb 1oz. She has always been slow to gain weight and on SCBU they were concerned and forced me to give her 1/4 formula to 3/4 ebm (she was NGT fed at the time cos too tiny to BF)

However there are MORE calories in breast milk so the formula made no difference to her weight gain.

She is now 9 and a half months old and weighs 12lb 10oz - still relaly tiny and has only put on 7 oz in 3 weeks BUT some weeks it more som e it's less. Yes I do still stress about her weight BUT she is doing fine developmentally so there is no real concerns she is just small.

There is this mad way of thining that a fat baby equals healthy baby when in fact this is simply not true.

Can you ask to see your BF co-ordinator as they usually have the best advice. paeds and nurses (in my experience) are too quick to say use bottle and formula when in fact the best thing to do is take baby aitch to bed and babymoon for a few days and feed feed feed!

She will be fine though!

Aitch, don't feel knocked by this weight gain - it is still a gain after all and you know she's been full of a cold poor thing.

I think what NeenzTwinz says is a good idea - why not bfeed during the day and take the little and often approach. Then top up with EBM for a couple of late feeds and enjoy those 3 hour sleeps when you can appreciate it?

When I caved in at 6 weeks and started to offer a formula bottleit was always at bedtime to avoid those cranky evenings when my milk was low and DD1 was a PITA.

she's 4 weeks, born at 33+6, 4lb 1oz, andd is now 4lb 12 and a half. so. not much...

hv is making me go to paed tomorrow, the one i had in hosp. nice guy, advocate of bfing but really doesn't understand how it works.

he's the guy who ssaid that research indicatred that beyond 15mins babies don't get much benefit at the breast. i askeed how this reserach was done and he said by measuring pumped breasts etc before and after. which made me .

Aitch, it's a bad day at the salt mines this morning but (if you think it might help) later today I could email you some stuff about research into baby growth patterns.

As I said, there's a very strong message coming through that more is not necessarily better where early weight gain is concerned.

Thanks for details Aitch... my twins were born at 36+5 so not as prem as your LO but DD had IUGR and was only 4lb8oz (her twin was 6lb2oz).

If your DD only spent one night in SCBU she must have been doing well. My twins didn't have to go to SCBU and we came home from hosp after two days, tho they didn't want me to take her home. She struggled to BF at first and I used her twin as a pump for a while to get the milk going. I'd put him on first then her... could you express 1oz off before her feed to get the milk flowing, and get her to the hind milk quicker?

After four weeks my DD was only 5lb so was putting on the same as your LO. I am not a doctor and don't know your baby but I would say just keep feeding her and feeding her and if she has lots of wet and dirty nappies then just carry on and resist giving her formula (unless you want to). Your body is very clever, it knows exactly what your baby needs and if she is feeding well she will be getting enough and if she is gaining weight (even if it is only a small amount) then that is fine. 3oz for a baby of 4lb12 is proportionately good.

My DD only fed for a few minutes at a time sometimes. I just made sure I offered her the breast every three hours at least (and any other time she murmured really) and eventually she got strong enough to suck for longer and started gaining 7-8oz a week. Good luck!

I bet everyone thinks she's wonderful don't they? People could not get enough of my DD when she was that small - she was so tiny and looked like a plucked chicken when she had no clothes on. Her legs were like bones with skin on. Bless.

am metric but believe an oz is still a legitimate form of weight. and she gained one and a half of them.

ds was referred to paed by hv for being underweight and he (p) scathingly wrote to my gp about neurotic mother and frequent weighings.

hold your nerve.

hi aitch
not read the whole thread as i'm too shattered but my prem baby has only put on 2oz in 7 days !
the nurse has said he is starting to look scrawny but i am determined to carry on bfeeding and not give him formula although maybe i'm being cruel and should top him up with formula
just don't know
they have given me fortifier to add to my ebm but only managed to express 20ml today so dreading tonight as that's when i need to top him up more.
he is also feeding for between 1 1/2 up to 2 1/2 hours !! nightmare
good luck with it - i know what you're going through

So 11 ounces in 4 weeks? Don't think thats bad to be honest

Have been there and was so pressured into topping up, I didn't and it took a good 3 monthsfore dd4 was really making progress.

Hang in there, she is gaining even if slowly xx

aitch stick to your gut feeling I know I did in the end but had wobbles in between please please me and just bf her i have been here done it wore the tshirst in fact im still wearing it my honest opinion is if she gains and doesnt loose weight continue with bf she might be one of the slow weigth gainers im on no 4 was BULLIED with the others regarding weight gain and caved in to the formula route but with no 4 I am proud to say I didnt cave in ok she is little but she gets what she wants milk wise and I have had comments regarding her speach etc how advanced she is so imo I would stick woth what you are doing and stick two fingers up at them hv

ds4 didt gain (lost 4oz) for a month

then onl gained leetle bits

no panic says I- other three did the same
they panicked; they made me wean early
he gained... a pound a fortnight for last 2 months, almost 9th centile now

they tried to bully me into ff but neither me nor baby would have it- fab kid

Now i don't think weaning early was a stunning idea- we've already got one intolerance to add to the milk we knew about- but with ds3 nearing a potential dx didnt want to fall out wth Paeds iyswim, he's 6 months next week anyhoo, stil bf as well as solids- not worth panic now

Aitch- my advice my love is don't worry. Any gain is a gain. Go with your instincts.

I agree 11oz in four weeks is good. 11oz is about 15-20% of her bodyweight. If she is gaining then she doesn't need formula. Just keep feeding!!!

11 oz in 4 weeeks is fucking loads.
Honestly, throw out that fucking formula or I'll be up to boot you up yer arse. It's NOT HELPING.
( I told you I was gonig to get nasty.)

oh Aitch lovely. sorry you have this worry, and I know how hideous it is. ds1 wasn't prem but in SCBU etc. etc. and forced top-ups and I test weighed him for weeks and bloody weeks and he was always always a slooooow gainer. ds2 piled it on for his first couple of months and then sloooooowed right down.

they are fine, lovely. I think 11oz/4 weeks sounds good, under the circs. She's prem, she's battling a cold, she's regaind birthweight and then some. Formula never stopped my ds1 gaining slowly. I know how everyone clings to it, the HCPs first and then you just follow... at least I did... as it's quantifiable and that's what they like, it's what everyone likes, as it feels safe. But you're right, so many people have no idea how bf works, any more. Is she feeding well, latch, no pain etc.? Fishie is right - hold your nerve! And we are all here to hold it with you

she's not had formula for a week, moony. any top-ups are ebm. you can breathe easy.
it's just that i've been trying to ditch the top-ups and freeze the ebm so as to direct the stimulation to my tits.