Urgent please help dd has dropped a centile and all a bloody nightmare

[ruty]

DD, nearly 12 weeks, has always seemed like she's not really bothered about feeding [except possibly the first week of her life] It has been a struggle and i've ended up expressing and bottle feeding her for nearly every feed - tried everything, breastfeeding clinic, counsellors, everything, no one came up with any answers. She is though, happy, alert, bright and very easy going. Sleeps at night loads but awake in day. Haven't got her weighed for ages but today she has dropped from 75th centile to 50th. HV concerned and coming to see me this afternoon. She also has mucousy nappies [do did ds] so I've once again had to cut out dairy and wheat to see if that helps. It seems to help a bit but don't know if that is anything to do with the weight issues, she just doesn't seem to want much milk. It is an effort to get 450 ml into her by bottle each day. And she'll feed for a few mins in the day and night too so i hope that tops it up.
Is the centile drop and issue? Want to be prepared for the HV this afternoon. She is happy and bright, so just don't know how concerned to be. Any advice gratefully recieved.

DS nappies have stopped being mucousy in the last few weeks, this coincides with me not having milk (although I haven't cut cheese/butter etc.) and cutting out caffeine, which also helped with sleep and him not being fractious. It also coincides with him wacking on some ounces, though I can't swear to whether or not that was the cause.
I read someone on here describe mucousy nappies as 'hungry baby nappies',though it's the only place I've heard the phrase.

Over what period of time has she dropped from 75th to 50th? That will be a factor in whether or not it's an issue.

I'm not an expert, but I'm sure you'll get some good advice here.

xx

But has she actually gained weight?
Weight gain more important than centiles, is't it??

Hopefully an expert will be along soon, but the thing that stands out for me in your post is that she sleeps a lot at night - so no extra feeds are getting into her, which most babies would be having at 12 weeks.

I also guess that she doesn't take milk directly from the breast isn't helping either.

Sorry I have no answers. Have you tried the NCT bf line?

Babies do change centile, it's not a rule that they have to stick to. Am sure ds went from 75th to 50th and then back up again at a later date. And 50th is still right in the middle of the population - half of all babies will be the same weight or smaller at the same age!

My DS has always stuck to his centile line, but out of the 7 of us in my ante natal group, 2 have shot up the centiles, and one has gone from 50th at birth to around 9th. They're all happy, healthy, alert (and roughly equivalent in terms of development milestones!)

I would think about trying to give DC a feed while she's asleep if she sleeps a lot at night - its a good way to get a sneaky feed in if she'll do it!

To me, the "happy, alert, bright" is the imporant thing - more important than waht centile chart she is following. If you hven't had her weighted for ages, you don't know thatshe didn't drop there some time ago and is noW following "her" growth curve.

Wot blu said

She's gained weight has she? Or not?

yes she has gained weight. She seems happy and not hungry, that is the strange thing. But ihaven't weighed her for about a month, last time she was just under the 75th centile. I'm so knackered at night i just get her up for a 5 am feed, though she is so sleepy she just goes on the breast for three to five mins then goes back to sleep. I don't have the energy to express at night when i seem to be expressing all day, perhaps i should. Poor nearly 4 year old ds almost permanently ignored at moment.

is dropping centiles not a bad thing then if baby seems happy/alert? Just want to be prepared for imminent HV visit..

My DS was born between 75th and 91st and is now tracking just below 25th at 17 weeks. Fortunately I have a good HV who recently said to me "we're not worrying about him as he is obviously alert and healthy and happy". So long as your DD is gaining weight and having plenty of wet nappies and seems happy and alert then I wouldn't worry too much about the centiles. The charts are only one method of assessing how a baby is doing (and probably not the best method at that!)

Having said all that, it does sound like your DD does have a low milk intake which may be what is worrying the HV more than the slow weight gain per se. I think you do probably need to try and solve that in case her milk intake gets even lower. There are plenty of helpful people on here like tiktok who may be able to help.

ruty - expressing and giving ebm in a bottle is a chore...no wonder you balk at the idea of doing it at night too

Could you bf her direct at night? Would that be possible, given you do sometimes bf her direct?

Centile positions are not the be-all and end-all of health and well-being, and to be honest, the main issue seems to be to be her reluctance to feed either direct or via a bottle...feeds are not happy times for you.

A call to one of the helplines might help you talk more about this.

have tried all the helplines tiktok. No one has so far known what to suggest. Thank god she is bright and happy and smiley, but it is odd how infrequently she seems to get hungry. I don't know if it is just because she is so laid back. HV suggested i start her on the hypoallerginic formula ds had. Last time i had a bit of a fight on my hands to keep him off it until he was 6 months, and then he just had a little bit of it while i continued to breast feed. But his weight gain and feeding was always ok, it was just his mucousy nappies. I said i'd hold off on the formula for dd and we'd weigh her again in 2 weeks.
She doesn't like to feed lying down much, but i will try tonight. She drops off to sleep very quickly though at night.

good to know about the centiles thing HQ.

Ds was a vey laid back baby and never (apparently) fed very much - yet he was always happy, healthy and alert. Maybe she is just feeding enough for her - even if she is only gaining weight slowly.

After dropping from the 91st to under the growth charts, he then followed the chart for a few months (albeit just underenath) before eventually creeping back in and up. I hasten to add that I did have a lot of (prefessional) support who were happy that he wasn't a "Non Failure to Thrive" and I also fed ds loads of EBM for a while, which made no differecne to his growth rate - but did give me confidence that ds was just following his own curve.

hiya - dd2 (at the breast as I type!!) started off at 9 10, so way up the chart (98 or something), but had dropped down to 25 by the time she was 1yr. Only gained weight very slowly and had only just over doubled her weight at 1yr.

But, like yours, she was (and is) bright and happy. She hit all her development targets.

Interestingly a GP friend of mine told me the BNJ had an article which suggested the charts they use are likely to lead to more obese children. I've no idea - but I thought that was interesting. My HV did get very worried and had us in every two weeks for weigh ins and so on - but the 2 GPs I went to (! and I wasn't even worried!) both were also unworried.

And little dd is still fine - is looking more and more like her maternal great grandmother who was a stick insect all her life - right up to 84! Some people are just like that. Not me tho !!

that's interesting, thanks. Will just have to see how it goes. No idea what's it all about really, just wish she'd get hungry more often.

Are the charts you are using for formula fed babies as the breastfed baby chart ARE different. My ds is 6 months and I don't worry about taking him to get weighed - I go about every 6 weeks or so, but as long as he has gained I don't worry about it. It's worth checking the world health org website for b-fed baby charts. I have no idea what percentile we are on... except that ds is def below the average - will hunt out the book and report back (if it will help)..
I go more by whether he is passing plenty with an appropriate amount of wet/dirty nappies.
I would definately check bfed charts before taking any sort of advice...

sounds like my ds - who fell from 98th line at about 10weeks to 50th now at 15 weeks.

I wish my hv was like yours HQ as I am being pressurised to give formula or food (!).

My ds also sleeps through the night and in fact started to at 10 weeks. He also doesn't demand food much but i am trying to feed him every 2 hours and he seems happy to feed more if I offer it. I posted on here about it last week I think and it was suggested that he may be hungry but just too placid to demand food. I don't know if this is the case or if he is just falling to his natural level.

Sorry to ramble on - I would be interested to see what your hv says.

It's not so much whether the charts are for bf or fomula fed babies (and for reference: the "previous" cahrts were never for "formula fed" babies - they were for all babies, some formula fed and some breastfed, ie a mix). It's more that people (HVs in particualr) misunderstasdn the statistics involved. To have an average, you have to have babies above and bleow the the 50% line. If a child starts moving from a line, you should only be concerned if there are other factors which are also giving cause for concern.

The curves are an average of many children and therefore varying growth curves are smoothed out. Any one child's "correct" growth may well be in stops and starts. In the same way that you can have a growth spurt, you can also have a growth "pause". It's only with hindsight that you can see the overall trend.

but the current charts aren't for solely breastfed babies are they?

i mean aren't based on solely breastfed babies

There are cahrts for purely breasfed bavies now available. I beleive that they show a higher growth in the first few months than the "standard" chart - so if anything they could increase a breast feeding mother's concern.

The point is that they are averages - some children will grow faster and some will gorw slower than the average. You need to look at the whole baby - not jsut whether they are on a chart.