Sooooooo....I spoke to a lovely lady on the Heinz Tinytums consumer helpline this morning............

[lackaDAISYcal]

.......and voiced my concerns to her about the price increase, recipe change and all the other issues that have come to light over the new, rebranded and remixed Farley's milk.

I first got the spiel about "we think this is now the most superior product on the market" and "closest to breastmilk".

I questioned the price increase.....apparently the new ingredient can only be sourced from one manufacturer and is expensive, but it is worth it for "the best formula milk on the market"

I questioned how they could say they are committed to fair prices now then.....they are hoping that as this magic ingredient will come down in price and they will reduce the price accordingly.

I questioned exactly what the new ingredient was....it apparently helps with constipation.

I questioned what if my baby isn't constipated and that I had read that it had caused some babies to have explosive watery diahorrea (which you would expect if you were taking a laxative when not constipated)......apparently it is so wonderful that it can tell the difference between a constipated and a not constipated baby and it's effects are gentle on a baby's tummy

I questioned the size increase of the box giving the subliminal message that there would be more product...apparently this is so they can provide a little space for the scoop as they used to get complaints about losing the scoop in the powder. (DH is a pckaging development mananger and he said that over use of packaging is illegal and they can be reported to trading standards)

I questioned especially her claim that it is the most superior and closest to breastmilk formula out there.....and suggested that if they want something closest to breastmilk they should use otter's milk, not cow's milk, as tests have shown otter's milk to be almost identical to human breastmilk (This was passed on to me by the ABM BFC who did my peer supporter training, something about the type of mammal we are and how we nurture our young.)

I also told her that the feeling towards heinz over this issue was pretty hostile and that I had seen calls for a boycott of Heinz products and that Heinz should be aware just how aggrieved people are over this issue and the lack of information on the website about why Farley's suddenly just became difficult to get and then disappeared. I told her that I used Farley's as I had seen Heinz as one of the most ethical manufacturer's out there who had an honest pricing structure and didn't go for the mass advertising that other's did, but that I had seriously considered my postion and would not use any Heinz baby products again and that I had contacted Consumer Direct over some of these issues, including the 50% price increase.

Did I go too far?

so you pay more for the dubious privilege of making your baby poo more. what a crock of shit (literally....)

hunker, it was never on sale for any more than £4.99 around here, however the lady on the helpline said the RRP was £5.99 implying that the reduced price was just what the supermarkets charged (although I didn't think reducing the price was allowed)....in her view then only a 33% increase

Would the BBC care? I suppose if enough of us contacted them they might look into it.

What about babymilk action? Have they said anything about it or would they be interested?

TC...I asked the helpline what effect it would have on a baby who wasn't constipated, ie would it have a laxative effect, and the explanation was that it was gentle and just encouraged softened stools. The inference I took from that is that it is such a wonder ingredient that it could tell the difference between a constipated and non-constipated baby and adjust its efficacy accordingly

This might be a project for Ben Goldacre - looking at the (total lack of) science behind the change, and even behind formula in general.

I'm sorry because I really, really don't have time at the mo - does anyone have a bit of time to get together some links for him and a para about what the concerns are?

Or maybe we could do it here as a collective thingy.

someone just pointed out chickenburgers post of 16:57 to me on another thread.......obviously I just blanked it out due to it's abruptness; however not wanting to appear rude....

my feeding history is none of your business to be quite blunt, although the threads I started on here about the problems i had in the early days and thanking the MN BF collective for their combined support in helping me get to 10 months are in the archives for all to read should my BFing credentials need to be justified. However, fwiw, I don't think that feeding formula, for whatever reason, and being a supporter of breastfeeding are not mutually exclusive.

FFS

Message withdrawn

I nearly ignored this as per the usual MN rows I though "oh no a FF thread - better stear clear" But OMG. What ever your choices this is disgusting.

I can't believe that they can get away with such a small sample group before launching a new product. Face creams have a bigger research group. Junk food is tested by hundreds of consenting adults before it is deemed acceptable to sell to the general public but an infant milk can have, what a couple of dozen at the most

I won't comment on price or packaging I may explode

oops, i put an erroneous "not" in there....but you get what I'm saying!

callme...i think this is one issue where there seems to be a pretty united front for once

You know what really pees me off about things like this - WHY do they have to CHANGE the bloody thing totally, why can they not just introduce a new version AS WELL as the old one, so that people have a CHOICE of whether or not to take up the "new-improved-might-be-better-for-baby-we're-not-sure-yet" version? As one poster has said, her baby was only able to tolerate the old version and what is he going to do now?

I am asking from an objective pov as I don't need to use formula (lucky me) - but it goes for other products as well. For instance, washing powders "new, improved" versions seems to usually mean "far more totally unnecessary and potentially irritating perfume added". I liked the previous version, thank you very much and I DON'T appreciate being forced into the new version.

How much did farleys use to be?

oooh, he's quite dishy...will definately email him tomorrow...oops today!

agree thumbwitch, but people wouldn't buy the new if the old, and cheaper one was still available. I do think they have shot themselves in the foot by not having the new one available before the old one was discontinued though as lots of users have switched to another brand already and are hardly likely to change again.

But, there are always new babies so always new consumers. Any protest of existing customers voting with their feet about this will last at the most for another 10 months, meanwhile the new unsuspecting testers babies will be drinking the new formula.

£4.99 ish

New one is £7.99 ish

thats a stupid price increase! They prob could of got away with 5.99.

I see what you are saying lackaD, but if they marketed it as a PLUS version then you would still get some people deciding it was worth a go and the extra cost was obviously because of the added ingredients - a comparison I could make here is the Pregnacare tablets that come with or without the omega 3 oils; you have the price differential of course but also the choice of whether you take the oils or not.

Imagine if, for e.g., KitKat (Nestle I know) decided that, instead of having a choice of KitKat flavours, they were just going to turn them all into KitKat orange or something? That would be madness, no? So what the hell Heinz thought they were doing is beyond me. I guess they just expected that EITHER brand loyalty would see them through OR that sufficient people would just pick up the tin without noticing the price increase (how unlucky for them that the credit crunch coincided with their product re-launch!)

I think they have done some market research that shows the perception of Farley's as a brand wasn't good because it is the cheapest one available...and now theinclusion of this marvellous and exclusive new ingredient has given them an edge over the competitors and anexcuse to hike the price.

People buy Aptamil as the message that expensive = best gets across, however subliminally, so it should work for them too now.

I wonder how long it will take for it to be moved from the top, almost unreachable shelf in Sainsbury's to the middle shelf beside C&G and SMA? or how long it will take either of them to be relegated to the outer reaches of the consumer's peripheral vision?

ChickenBurger
Confused. If you are a peer supporter what are you doing using formula?

The course I did was run by a childless woman, included a childless woman and a mother who had to give formula as she was (wrongly we found out) told her medication wasn't compatible with breastfeeding, she would have been very ill without the medication and did hold off as long as possible.

I understand some organisations are rather tight on the issue, but not all.

It just really makes me angry that they're marketing this on the back of breastfeeding promotion campaigns. IE - breastfeeding is best for your baby and now our milk is even more like breastmilk.......

[angy]

my dp told me yesterday that hes posted about nestle on his rant log. i'll link him to this thread so he can add heinz to it too.

im ashamed to admit that i chose aptamil purely because it was most expensive and unthinkingly assumed twas 'best' when i supplemented bf.

Belindan Phipps (CEO of NCT) has spoken to a journalist from The Guardian and they are doing a piece on it. I suggested Belinda direct the journalist to this board if they want some commentary from mums affected by the price hike.

Marvellous! I hope that the piece talks about the "science" behind the ingredient they've added in order to try to justify the price raise and the fact that experimental formula is tested on so very few babies before it's put on sale for everyone - oh, and the fact that if breastfeeding support was better (ie if every woman who wanted to breastfeed was supported to do so), FAR fewer women would need formula in the first place.

Ooh, sabire, great stirring!

I don't suppose you fancy writing to Ben Goldacre about the dodgy science too? ["eager but up to ears in work" emoticon]

fantastic

now where is hflotsofnumbers; She needs to see what idle, misguided women talking on internet forums can achieve

amphibimum, when I failed to BF DS I aspired to buy Aptimil for those reasons as well (it wasn't available on the free milk scheme I was on as a single parent though)...the power of marketing, eh?

I was going to contact Ben Goldacre, but I'm not as erudite/eloquent/informed as sabire, tiktok and hunker, but I suppose if a few people contact him then it might just spark his interest.

but for now am supposed to be up to my ears in housework.

did others get the impression taht hflotsnumbers is someone who works for a formula company who was on a trolling mission on that thread?