Sooooooo....I spoke to a lovely lady on the Heinz Tinytums consumer helpline this morning............

[lackaDAISYcal]

.......and voiced my concerns to her about the price increase, recipe change and all the other issues that have come to light over the new, rebranded and remixed Farley's milk.

I first got the spiel about "we think this is now the most superior product on the market" and "closest to breastmilk".

I questioned the price increase.....apparently the new ingredient can only be sourced from one manufacturer and is expensive, but it is worth it for "the best formula milk on the market"

I questioned how they could say they are committed to fair prices now then.....they are hoping that as this magic ingredient will come down in price and they will reduce the price accordingly.

I questioned exactly what the new ingredient was....it apparently helps with constipation.

I questioned what if my baby isn't constipated and that I had read that it had caused some babies to have explosive watery diahorrea (which you would expect if you were taking a laxative when not constipated)......apparently it is so wonderful that it can tell the difference between a constipated and a not constipated baby and it's effects are gentle on a baby's tummy

I questioned the size increase of the box giving the subliminal message that there would be more product...apparently this is so they can provide a little space for the scoop as they used to get complaints about losing the scoop in the powder. (DH is a pckaging development mananger and he said that over use of packaging is illegal and they can be reported to trading standards)

I questioned especially her claim that it is the most superior and closest to breastmilk formula out there.....and suggested that if they want something closest to breastmilk they should use otter's milk, not cow's milk, as tests have shown otter's milk to be almost identical to human breastmilk (This was passed on to me by the ABM BFC who did my peer supporter training, something about the type of mammal we are and how we nurture our young.)

I also told her that the feeling towards heinz over this issue was pretty hostile and that I had seen calls for a boycott of Heinz products and that Heinz should be aware just how aggrieved people are over this issue and the lack of information on the website about why Farley's suddenly just became difficult to get and then disappeared. I told her that I used Farley's as I had seen Heinz as one of the most ethical manufacturer's out there who had an honest pricing structure and didn't go for the mass advertising that other's did, but that I had seriously considered my postion and would not use any Heinz baby products again and that I had contacted Consumer Direct over some of these issues, including the 50% price increase.

Did I go too far?

Most women wouldn't dream of letting their babies be involved in a study into novel ingredients in formula - yet most women are involved in them, simply by feeding their babies formula, it would seem.

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hunker, it's worse - no one is studying the babies. The papers I have looked at over the past few days all call for 'longer term rersearch' or 'more research with larger samples' - but they are not done. It is an uncontrolled experiment - we see the results here on mumsnet, where mothers themselves swap anecdotes and experience of Brand X causing something, Brand Z causing something else, and asking for advice on other brands that might suit their babies better.

If Brand X does cause something,and Brand Z does cause something else, then there should be a proper study to show for it....it may not cause anything, but without a proper study, the choice is left to 'pick a brand with a pin'.

poledra - there was in the ajcn one.

It makes me really, really angry, actually - and it's bloody hard to talk about, because it does make women defensive.

I'd be defensive, if my only "choice" was to feed my baby experimental formula. Defensive as all hell. And probably incredibly upset that there were women who'd had better information or better support or more luck or whatever and didn't have to rely on some faceless corporation feeding my precious bundle.

I'd be fucking livid, actually - and I wonder who I'd be most cross with? I hope it would be with the formula companies, but they're a hard target - impenetrable, it would seem - so maybe I would be angry as hell with the women who didn't need to use formula? Prickly to think about, isn't it?

sabire - was that NJ study the only evidence Heinz could give to support their new formula? Because while the paper is reasonably well written and clear, they do some things with their analysis which are not so good (although they are open about this, which is nice to see) and, reading it, I would say there is no statistically significant evidence that the new formula is better for constipated babies than standard.

As tiktok says, they actually don't need to show this , but they really shouldn't be quoting this study to back up trying a novel ingredient out on babies. hunker, I'm livid too.

The addition of novel ingredients is, I would judge, a marketing exercise. Farley's formula has been an 'also ran' for some years - you can notice this, if you see how widely it is available compared to the bigger brands. It is noticable that as well as changing its formulation, it's changed its branding to Heinz - this builds a relationship with mothers who use it, and who then (they hope) will go on to use their packaged baby gloop when it comes to weaning.

But they can't add prebiotics - yawn yawn yawn, been done, adding these really looks like a catchup exercise. So they add an ingredient that has been approved for almost 10 years but which has not actually been in UK formula at all (I have no idea if it is in formula available elsewhere)....and they flood the HCP journals with pages and pages of advertising promoting it.

What we are seeing is not an exercise in improving infant nutrition. It is a highly expensive marketing campaign, which parents are paying for.

I really didn't know about this until your thread the other day Hunker. I always imagined that there were really tight controls on formula, what they could and couldn't put in them etc. The burnden of proof should be on the companies to show that what they are adding does no harm, and is beneficial

I share the anger. It makes me even happier that DD was bf, and had very little formula.

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Just to add - prebiotics are also in the new formulation, but the marketing is all around the Betapol ingredient, which changes the fat composition to give softer stools.

It's absolutely a marketing campaign.

They must've wet themselves when they found an ingredient that had had a bit of testing done on it that they could make trumped-up claims about.

I'd love a job at a formula company. Maybe in the marketing department.

I wonder if Jeremy Vine et al at Panorama could be persuaded to do this as a story?

Would have to be done v sensitively though. I know, we'll get Tiktok to advise them

I had the same sort of codswallop in an email from them.

I am fuming.

I can only buy SMA, Cow & Gate or Aptamil in my whole town.

It is cheaper for me to drive 11 miles to our nearest Sainsburys and buy Hipp Organic at a reasonable price, in bulk, than to put money into the pockets of Heinz.

If I ever need baby food (travelling etc), I only buy Hipp Organic, so why did I choose Farleys over Hipp in the first place?!

I so hope that Heinz become aware of this, oh and something that made me laugh when I was looking with evil eyes at the tins of Nurture today, they still have FARLEYS on the box under the name, yet according to my email, they are no longer Farleys and now Heinz Nurture.... so why still have an association if it is a DIFFERENT milk. Surely that is false advertising? Saying a product is Farleys, when it obviously isnt. Farleys doesnt exist anymore. (Unless you want Soya milk, loads of tins of that around, but they are £7.99 a tin now too)

How much was the Farleys soy formula before, do you know, JARM?

We need some people who use the new one and find that their child suddenly poos for england then.

I honestly cant remember, but I dont think it was £7.99

Look at the top tip on the left hand side of the page.
What would we do without them?
Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

gosh tiktok, that sounds suspiciously like some of the anti-obesity drugs (orlistat?)

"Nucleotides are nutrients naturally present in our bodies which are also found in breastmilk .They may play a role in developing strong immune systems and have a number of different functions that support growth and development.
Some infant formulas may contain up to five different types of nucleotides.

If these have been added, they will be listed in the ingredients list and the nutrition information panel."

It makes it sound like they are adding the same nucleotides as are in the human body and in BM. That isn't true is it?

"Even if you're expressing breast milk and using a bottle to feed, you should still sterilise your bottles and teats."

the unwritten deduction is "therefore... why faff with expressing when you can just give our new and improved formula!"

sons of bitches.

(no, you don't have to sterilise if giving ebm)

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flubdub - the products on that website are not the same as the products in the UK, I don't think. Are you in NZ? I was reading the ingredients and the blurb, and it was different from the UK info.

Pruners, Ive never sterilised any of DS's (7mnths) stuff, he is fine!