Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Still being subjected to the cow and gate ad.

551 replies

LookingForwardToSummer · 04/07/2008 14:39

Grrrrr. It's so annoying! Is there nothing we can do?

OP posts:
Idobelieveinfairies · 04/07/2008 20:18

I have always always thought that formula milk was made to feed to babies who aren't breast-fed for whatever reason..that it is made as close to breast-milk as it ever possibly could be..with the babies best interest at heart.

To this day i have very happy, healthy intelligent children who have developed just as they should, i do not feel as if they have missed out or could have turned out any better......so there must be some goodness in formula milk....i do think they try and help us formula fed parents out.

I think it is important to say at this stage that i am not employed by cow & gate .

Bring on the adverts that encourage breast-feeding!

hunkermunker · 04/07/2008 20:19

Has anyone on this thread read the Novel Oils thread I posted in this topic a few days ago?

imanginewittynamehere · 04/07/2008 20:20

I too hate this advert - it is misleading & seeks to undermine some of the best reasons for breastfeeding.

I agree with smalwhitecat, franny & constancereader who have made some great points here

hunkermunker · 04/07/2008 20:20

Idobelieveinfairies, that's staggeringly naive, I'm afraid

They're motivated by profit.

juuule · 04/07/2008 20:23

But isn't it in their interests for the milk to do the job it's supposed to do. If it was found to be detrimental to babies health then wouldn't that hit their profits as people would stop buying it.

hunkermunker · 04/07/2008 20:24

Have a read of this thread for more info about what's in formula and why

And think about the motives of those who are supporting bf and saying these adverts are a bad idea - are they being paid to do so? No.

Thankless bloody task a lot of the time, supporting bf, let me tell you! [bitter experience]

Rewarding as anything though, when it works out for someone who has been having problems - or you get someone say they'll give it a go because of something you've written.

And Moopdaloop - it's perfectly possible to still care about this when you have older children - unless there's some switch that turns off your empathy once your children are ten or something?

hunkermunker · 04/07/2008 20:26

Juule, people would stop buying it? It's already clear it's not as good as breastmilk, yet people buy it in spades - and shout down any opposition to it.

Might I mention formula companies' practices in the Third World on this thread as well, please?

wordgirl · 04/07/2008 20:27

Yes quite hunkermunker. Mine are 14, 12 and 9 and I still feel quite strongly about it. I bf all of them but only for six months and it makes me a bit cross that I didn't do it for longer. I think their subliminal 'six month' message got to me.

StarlightMcKenzie · 04/07/2008 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

juuule · 04/07/2008 20:33

But most people in this country know someone who was ff or whose baby was/is ff who seems to have thrived. It's difficult against that to argue that anyone ff their baby is causing them harm. If it's not causing the baby any apparant harm then to most people the choice to ff is equal to bf and they just loosely mentally acknowledge there might be marginal benefits to bf...but they're willing to live with that.

StarlightMcKenzie · 04/07/2008 20:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

juuule · 04/07/2008 20:40

How can seeing for yourself ff healthy babies and deducing from that that ff is unlikely to harm your own baby partly the responsibility of ff company's advertising?

constancereader · 04/07/2008 20:41

Thanks for the link Hunker.
Have skim read and will go back and read again later.

Makes rather shocking reading.

Idobelieveinfairies · 04/07/2008 20:42

oh i don't know....my head hurts...lol

constancereader · 04/07/2008 20:44

Idobelieveinfaires

take a deep breath

all will be well

StarlightMcKenzie · 04/07/2008 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

juuule · 04/07/2008 20:59

I know people in their 50s who were ff who have no health issues and their IQ has been enough to achieve well in life. It's looking at people like that and looking at thriving ff babies that makes some people question whether it is really that detrimental to their child to ff.

By the way, this isn't really my argument. I bf my babies (although the first 3 were ff from 3m,5m and 3m due to returning to work). I am putting forward things which have been said to me which I feel I don't have a convincing response for.

charliegal · 04/07/2008 21:03

The crazy thing is that formula companies have mothers doing their work for them, rather than mothers questioning their practices.

constancereader · 04/07/2008 21:05

I agree Charliegal.

TheOldestCat · 04/07/2008 21:25

Juule - with you on this; have heard the same arguments about anecdotal evidence. Hell, am living proof - I was BF, but have eczema, asthma, hay fever, nut allergy. Whereas my FF cousin is the very picture of health.

But surely that's why we have proper peer-reviewed studies that show the risk of gastroenteritis etc is greater for FF fed children than BF ones.

am not scientific, so hope someone will pop along with something more, errrrrm, scientific to say.

And the C&G advert? Where's the equivalent of the voiceover on financial services adverts (your home may be repossessed if you do not keep up repayments....) Guess money is more important than infant feeding choice. Because parents are being invited to choose are they? They're being manipulated.

Grrrr.

sabire · 04/07/2008 22:20

"But isn't it in their interests for the milk to do the job it's supposed to do. If it was found to be detrimental to babies health then wouldn't that hit their profits as people would stop buying it"

Yes - if parents were able to a) recognise and b) make a connection between their child's suboptimal health and development and how they were fed as infants, but they don't. They never do. That's true of ff, as well as of mums who smoke in pregnancy, who are never able to see the impact of prenatal nicotine exposure on their babies (or at least that's true of all the women I know who smoked while pregnant), and of women who feed their older children on bloody appalling diets. Most people I know swear their kids are fantastically healthy, but then you find out in passing at the school gates about their long term problems with constipation, their ear infections, their chest infections....... But their mums think it's all completely normal. Babies get sick. They vomit. They get upset tummies. They get constipation. Children get lots of ear infections. They wouldn't in a million years make the connection between these minor illnesses and how their babies are fed, and even if they did, they've always got some story about how their neighbor's bf child is even sicker (of course - they have no idea and don't think it's relevant how MUCH breastfeeding a supposedly breastfed child has had, or whether it's been exclusive bf or not, or when that neighbor had introduced solids, or any number of other relevant facts).

I was thinking about this the other day, while watching a lovely baby at a kids party I went to. I was chatting to the mum about her work. She told me she'd gone back to work when the baby was only a few weeks old - he'd been bottlefed almost from birth. At one point this baby tipped back his head and laughed. When he did this you could see inside his mouth - that his palate was incredibly high and narrow... something that's very typical of ff babies. Babies who are bf have much shallower and wider palates, hence less dental occlusion. I felt quite sad when I saw this and I was thinking - it would never occur to her or any other mother I know to think of something like this - it's simply not something people know about until they've done the research.

juuule · 04/07/2008 22:30

But it is difficult to link things directly to ff or bf.
My dd who has had bowel problems was exclusively bf for 6m+ and gluten was only introduced after she was 10m.
My exclusively bf to 6m babies are the ones who have had problems with their milk teeth.
I have tried to see whether my babies who were longer term bf (between 10 and 15m) were observably different from the ones we switched to ff. I can't really see anything that would point specifically to the type of first milk they received. I could blame my eldest's mild asthma on being ff from 3m and if my dd had been ff I would probably have blamed that for her bowel problems, but she wasn't so maybe it wasn't the ff that caused the asthma.

Can you see where I'm having a problem with being able to tell people that bf is the best option, even if that's what I believe?

juuule · 04/07/2008 22:31

Also, I was ff and so was my sister. I had trouble with my milk teeth but she didn't. Of course, I might not have had a problem if I'd been bf but my children have despite being bf.

CathyJo · 04/07/2008 22:36

The IQ benefit around breastfeeding is dependent on the presence of a gene called FADS2 - if you don't have the variety of it then there is no proven link to IQ increase in breastfed children. As stated the IQ score increase was found to be 7 points in breastfed children who had a certain variety of this gene. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know my own IQ and personally question the relevance of IQ tests given their narrow scope and definition of what intelligence is. I think the IQ argument surrounding breastfeeding is one of the weaker ones.

MilaMae · 04/07/2008 22:47

Sabire you are inferring all ff babies are ill even though their mothers say otherwise, what a completely untrue thing to see.

My 3 ff dc are never ill I know ,you don't.

All 3 have never ever been constipated, never get chest infections, were and are never sick, one of my twins had his first ear infection at nearly 5 the other 2 are still waiting.

As for a wider,shallower palate errrr who cares,my dc have perfect teeth. Do you spend every living moment of your life looking out for signs of damage from formula???? If so I really think you need to get out more.