Still being subjected to the cow and gate ad.

[LookingForwardToSummer]

Grrrrr. It's so annoying! Is there nothing we can do?

Daisy, I think it's sad other women don't give a shit about other women and their babies, I really do.

Very "I'm all right, Jack, sod you", isn't it?

Not sure about the VAT hunker...I would hope not though.

I wouldn't have thought so, thought they taxed stuff classified as a 'luxury'

I know there's no VAT on infant safety products - like car seats. I wouldn't've thought that there'd be VAT on infant formula, although I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

I agree hunker.

also, I FF DS after a failed attempt at BFing .....and my decision on which one was based on what was available with the milk vouchers I got for being a single parent. Although my HV did say there was no point spending lots of money on say Aptamil when Farley's was just as good...so I bought Farleys (although it did imo taste better than some of the others) and recently heinz have seemed less unethical than some of the other brands. They have vastly fallen in my opinion with this sudden price hike. And although I FF I can still see that the way the advertisers flout the law is wrong and that although I was forced into using it or my baby would starve, even I could see that something that was artificially produced from the milk of another mammal would always be a poor second to my own BM.

I do wish that the information about what is in formula and the possible effects of formula feeding had been available to me at that time. I might just have kept going with the BFing and got through the problems we were having.

exactly swc, and friends and family members can suggest trying a bottle to help him sleep/gain weight/...

It's very wrong that the "answer" to breastfeeding problems is "give him a bottle of formula" when the woman wants to breastfeed - I agree totally with what you're saying, SWC.

And often, the language around early baby feeding is geared towards bottlefeeding - all the routine stuff is detrimental to bf, but it's what people assumes is the best thing to do - so you'll get "how long is he going between feeds?" with a longer gap being impressive, sleeping well at night (not good for supply too early on), etc, etc.

Juule - have you had a look on this site:
www.babyfeedinglawgroup.org.uk/pdfs/hardsellformula.pdf (it's a downloadable poster)?

A few months ago I stumbled on a pile of Cow and Gate leaflets in the parentcraft room of my local hospital. The leaflet was called 'Managing Minor Feeding Problems and apparently it's
designed for health professionals to give to mums. On the page on colic
it advises breastfeeding women to remove 'spicy chilli' and chocolate
from their diets because they can make colic worse and
because 'whatever you eat, your baby gets first' (?!)

The information given on constipation doesn't differentiate between b/f
and a/f babies but reassures mums that 'constipation in common in the
first year'. It also says that if babies go infrequently they could be
constipated. A highlighted box gives this advice for the mothers of
babies who might be constipated: 'Whether you're breast or
bottlefeeding make sure your baby has plenty of fluid by offering
cooled boiled water between feeds.'

I phoned up the helpline and spoke to a 'health professional' who told
me that the leaflet was under review but refused to give assurances
that it would no longer be distributed to the public. She said
(frightningly) that this particular leaflet is actually very popular
among health professionals and got a bit shirty with me when I
suggested that this advice could be seen to undermine breastfeeding.

This is how far the companies are willing to go: to produce marketing leaflets dressed up as 'information' and sneak them into hospitals - to give to mums who may know nothing about breastfeeding...... Leaflets that contain information which is misleading and damaging to breastfeeding.

How sneaky and underhand is that?

This thread was so much better last night!!!

NICE SHOES, HF AND MILA WHERE R U? We need to liven up again PMSL

Sorry, I was at the Industrial Park Rubbish tip - disposing of the Cow and Gate leaflets that I wrote and dropped off at my local hospital.

Apparently someone phoned up and complained about their content.

Why don't you and younganddumb start your own little party thread hf128219?

hf - seriously, a ff baby who doesn't poo in the first two weeks of life is likely to be constipated. A bf baby who doesn't poo in the first two weeks of life is likely to be malnourished and dehydrated. Every day in this country newborn bf babies will be readmitted into hospital with dehydration because parents haven't the education to spot when bf is failing.

Do you think it's unimportant or even funny that a multinational company is putting marketing information out into the public domain that misleads parents over something as important as this?

I love the advert - It makes me smile

I wish parents would invest in a book (of a slightly medical genre) whilst pregnant so that they would be able to spot such signs.

Waterstones and such like are littered wih books on pregnancy, childbirth, babies et al.

That apart, NHS hospitals distribute literature after birth on breastfeeding.

Included in such literature is information on what to look out for to ensure that your baby is getting enough milk. One of them being the passing of soft yellow stools.

Do people not read this literature?

Thanks for that link, Sabire. I'll have a closer look at it when I get a chance.

I'm still not convinced of the evil of the advert referred to in the original post BUT I can now see why it's like a red rag to a bull when taken in the wider context of formula advertising.
Why are NHS hcp not trained to counteract spurious claims? I would expect they must go on professional development courses. Why are leaflets supplied by formula companies not scrutinised before distribution?
Yes, I can understand the frustration of some bf-ing supporters. I do still think that some can be a bit extreme at times, though.

Juuule, the RColl of Midwives conference this year was sponsored by a company who make probiotics for formula companies!

That might go some way to answering your question!

just what we like to see...sarcasm and ill informed humour in the face of reasoned argument....that's very mature of you ladies

sarcasm being the lowest form of wit and all.

So really that's getting to the nub of it, I think. There isn't really the will (in the places that could make a difference)to change things. Is that part of the problem?

Sarcasm is indeed the lowest form of wit - it is the very foundation

what really irks is the rigteous indignation and holier than thou tone of the BF zealots. tub thumping monomaniacs who insidiously berate and criticise those evidently weak and lesser mums who dare to ff. WELL the majority of mums ff and many use follow on products i know this from your oft cited statistics

save your righteous indignation for something that really matters. or do you want all the FF mums rounded up, derided and branded for being brainwashed and callously feeding their children fish-bollocks

Well said NiceShoes.

I second that.

NiceShoes - I agree no one wants to read 'tub thumping monomaniacs who insidiously berate and criticise those evidently weak and lesser mums who dare to ff.'

Could you give an example of this on this thread or any current threads?

I have said before that the issue of advertising formula milk is just one of ethics - formula milk needs to be marketed ethically, so i) it does not undermine breastfeeding and ii) it does not mislead or under-inform parents who use formula

This is a public health issue, not really an issue of the rights or feelings of parents.

The ads under discussion do both i) and ii).

It's unethical.

I still don't see why this is controversial.

And I third it