Still being subjected to the cow and gate ad.

[LookingForwardToSummer]

Grrrrr. It's so annoying! Is there nothing we can do?

It's an analogy Elf. In fact, it could even be literal: is there any reason why it shouldn't be prescription-only?

If BF were normal in this country and some women couldn't, why couldn't the NHS fund formula? Because it would be farking expensive? Hmm. Perhaps then people who should, would make much better efforts to help women BF...

And something else that strikes me as a bit odd. How many other products do you see advertised that promote another product over itself?

You wouldn't find Adidas, for example, carrying a written promotion stating that Nike was best. (Note: I've no idea if they are, just using the names as an example.)

All the formula milk adverts that I've seen have the 'breast is best' message on them in some form or other.
Most places that pregnant women/new parents visit eg Health centres, clinics all have posters, notices etc up promoting bf-ing.

I suspect there is something much more fundamental that is keeping bf-ing rates down.

I breast fed my daughter until she was 18 months. I was lucky, it worked for us.
Some people are not that lucky, some people struggle and eventually it works, for some people it never happens and they use formula.
The people I know who have used formula have found it difficult because they felt like they had failed.
Making it so they have to go to the doctors to get a prescription to feed their child just rubs salt in the wound at what is a very emotional time for new parents.
Also, if it were prescription only, there would possibly be a small % of people who decide to chose other methods of feeding their child aside from b/feeding and formula feeding, such as using cows milk or other unsuitable products rather than having to face going to the doctor to beg for a prescription.

Hmm Wilf i used to think that formula should be prescription only until Tiktok said on another thread (ages ago, so i'm paraphrasing, I hope she doesn't mind) words to the effect of:

"Just think, all of you, about the duff advice you have had from HCP's, doctors, MWs and HVs. Now imagine that they, and only they, had the power to give your child the nutrition they needed to stop them from dying."

Kind of turned me off that way of thinking tbh.

I do think, however, that there should be one brand of formula, freely available, and reasonably priced which would not be advertised at all, and there would be an ingredients list, and clear, concise information (preferably Government or DoH sponsored) available to anyone who wished to see it. This formula would be suitable up to 12 months, there would be no "follow-on milk", no "night-time milk", no "hungry baby" milk, no "toddler" milk. Parents would be advised how to ff on demand and cluster feed.

I can dream, eh?

Going back to the advertising thing...
This time of year, there are plenty of different adverts for allergy tablets.
It doesn't make me want to go out and buy them, because my body works in a fashion where I do not have allergies. Just like my body (and baby) worked in a fashion where breastfeeding was a breeze, no latching problems, no sore nipples, no infections, no problem.
But if my body didn't work and was allergic to hay, it would be nice to know there was a product out there that could help me, and not something that was covered up, made secretative.

I agree Juuule that the ads are not the only story. there is somethinG else going on too which I suspect is about the over-dependence our culture has on breasts as only a sexual thing and that is not really being addressed properly. In addition, the appalling cycle of non-breastfeeding is having its own impact on health care advisers who have no experience and share the general cultural antipathy to BF.

Elf, I'm not suggesting - as I've just said - that ads are the only issue. But the notion that 'some bodies just don't work' is the issue. I imagine most of the 80% of women who are forced to give up BF really quickly know that this is what happened to them.

Yet in other countries where BF is much more accepted, the rate of those unable to BF is much lower. It is very unlikely there are such massive biological differences between the UK and say Peru or Norway. So the explanation must be social - something we're doing in our society to prevent BF.

The problem I have with the ads in this context is that normalising formula, even if it IS normal for many people, is part of the problem, however difficult that is for us to face. The C&G one is particularly offensive because it deliberately attempts to undermine the BF is good message.

Yes, SuburbanD, I take that point - it's a good one. Didn't there used to be a national milk in the days (not so long ago, only 50-60 years) before mass marketing of formula? Or did I dream that.

I wonder what impact food and fuel prices will have on formula sales...

Wilf - the "Breast Is Best" message doesn't help, IMO. I think we need to change it to "Breast Is Normal", personally. Because the trouble is, that every time there's a thread like this, people come on and say, "Yes, we all know that Breast Is Best blah blah blah, but I couldn't breastfeed." And then of course the formula advertising goes on about breast being best (for the first 6 months ) but We All Know That, right?

The problem is far deeper than just formula marketing. The issues involved in this countries' appallingly low breastfeeding rates are multi faceted and need addressing, and - unfortunately - probably needs a large amount of taxpayers' money being thrown at it. Not in the posters which sit in waiting rooms banging out the old "Breast Is Best" message, which we're all immunised to anyway (and is also a really, really fast way to alienate ff-ing mothers!) but in some proper, decent NHS support, well-informed HCPs, DoH funded Baby Cafes and Breastfeeding Clinics (where the HV doesn't give out samples of baby rice suitable from 4 months), not to mention changing the way our whole society thinks about breasts and women. It's not as simple as to say that Breast Is Best and Formula Is Evil. It's not as simple to say Let's Ban Formula Advertising. It's not even as simple as Let's Bring In Some Legislation To Protect Mothers Who Wish To Nurse In Public. But all of those things are a start.

OK, maybe breast is best - we are all aware of the reasons cited. I was FF, my husband was FF - and we are fighting fit.

I know plenty of people who were BF and are as sick as parrots. A lot is in the genes I'm afraid.

Formula is not evil - and BF's should accept that and stop harping on and on.

Let each person decide what they want to do - and let them have the tools to do it.

hf - you were right in your previous post, i am afraid:

By hf128219 on Sun 06-Jul-08 12:34:16

There is so much rubbish spouting from some people's mouths it is unbelievable.

Anyway off to get the beef out of the oven for my lunch guests - all with babies, some BF, some FF. We might even have a debate about feeding

Don't even mention my veggie friends who will have a sneeky bit of beef on the quiet in the kitchen.

MIL is cooking roast beef this evening.

I am so ill I don't even fancy it.

If ds was much, much younger and still fed every hour (as he used to) then I would be sorely tempted to give up bf-ing if it would just make the pain go away.

But how would I choose which brand of formula to use, in my Brave New World? HUH?!?!?!?!?!?

I am amazed at the number of people who believe advertising doesn't work!

juuule, about ff promoting another product over itself, I think SD explained it further down
Assume all restrictions on formula advertising is removed
As we all know "breast is best" then formula A could choose to promote the message "Breast is best, but A is unbelievably close"
formula B chooses "BETTER than breastmilk"
People who do believe "breast is best" would choose A, as it has a message which seems to tie in with what they know
People who think there's little or no difference or believe that formula can be better choose B
As it is, they all have to carry the message as (presumably) infant feeding is a public health matter!

"Formula is not evil - and BF's should accept that and stop harping on and on."

Where's that been said?

Or is it your interpretation of what has been said?

I find it amazing that some people really can't seem to grasp that the issue is helping other women to do what they want to do, without the influence of advertisers with profit at the heart of all they do.

Any more of you read the article on this thread? Still think companies are telling you all you need to know about formula with their adverts?

I don't think that the formula companies tell you anything about the content of their products. They only make you aware of their existence. Anything else is prettying up the product to sell it. However, most people assume that it is suitable to feed to babies.
There does need to be more information to be able to make comparisons.

Formula advertising actually serves to prevent useful information being accessible to parents.

Pregnancy and baby magazines, for instance, have very "balanced" articles in them about infant feeding, which do a lot to preserve the notion that breastmilk and formula are equal substances - and, in fact, that formula's probably handier and less painful.

Why? Because they carry ads for all the major formula brands.

Take away formula advertising and you'd get a better standard of factual article in these magazines.

Till then, editors won't accept them.

Now that makes more sense.

Obviously if the revenue the magazines gain from formula advertising means receiving biased articles in the magazines then that should be stopped.

Particularly nasty as the magazines are targetted at pregnant women and new parents.

Just pick up any preg mag and see if there's any mention of anything beyond this sort of article:

"You might decide you want to breastfeed, but it's likely to be very hard, so do buy some formula and bottles just in case. Also, if you formula feed, you'll be more available for your husband, because he will want to have some sex. You will therefore need to look pretty, not smell of cheese in manner of bovine as men don't care much for heifers."

I think those kind of articles are much more damaging than the C&G tv advert and more deserving of people's anger and outrage.

It's the whole thing, Juuule. And if the ads on the TV don't go anywhere, the articles in the magazines won't get any better either.

Message withdrawn

Well that was a marathon. I've just trawled through the whole thread and am once again dismayed that in spite of all the stgument sput forward, the majority of women who have FF on this thread are still refusing to get the point that this is NOT about whether you FF your baby; it's about the fact that the Formula advertisers are constantly skating as close to the law as possible in order to market their product in a manner which undermines breastfeeding in a big way

Lots of questions about how mothers of infants are to know about which formula is available. this information should be given out by HVs ina totally unbiased fashion, with the information on the ingredients/composition and health risks of each formula.

this isn't rocket science; it's not anyone condemning those who make a choice to FF. It's about trying to get the information on ingredients and long term effects in the public domain so that women who FF can have all the information before making their decisions. It's for the greater fucking good and if all you can do in the face of a reasoned argument is take offence and then take the piss, then i feel very sorry for you.

Many of you are also saying that you don't care about women who BF their babies....maybe you should ask yourselves why women who breastfed their babies care about yours who were FF.

Jeez.

Is there VAT on formula? I feel I ought to know this.