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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Just when thought we found a breastfeeding star.

137 replies

kkdmom · 02/07/2008 04:35

ho-hum.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:15

Here you go - link on this article here

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:17

In fact, my last paragraph in that article is fitting on this thread too:

"So, what do you think? Do celebrities have a ?responsibility? to the rest of us? Should they take their status as role model seriously and consider the impact of their words? Or are they just like us, doing the best they can within their circumstances?"

TheFallenMadonna · 02/07/2008 12:18

Completely agree with Fio. General opinion will I suspect side with Charlotte Church who is describing experiences that many people share. Criticising her, calling her "silly", suggesting she should "keep her trap shut" (from the 4th and 5th comments on this thread) is not the best way to normalise breastfeeding.

youngbutnotdumb · 02/07/2008 12:19

Did I miss the part where Charlotte Church became the queenbee of all BF and sumhow they all follow when she says stop BF?

FGS, the girl was having an opinion but then again unless she BF and tells everyone how glorious it is(nt)then she is a terrbl person I mean..

HOW DARE SHE HAVE AN OPINION!!!

FioFio · 02/07/2008 12:19

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belgo · 02/07/2008 12:19

Hunkermunker - you might want to add Erykah Badu to your list, she bf one of her children for two years.

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:21

Unfortunately, it's not my list, Belgo, just a link I found.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/07/2008 12:22

Well, I think that 'celebrities' need to think about how they keep their public onside. So describing common experiences would be one way of achieving that. I think they tread a fine line between role model and 'one of us' - and I think re breasfeeding, Caharlotte Church has demonstrated that pretty well.

devonblue · 02/07/2008 12:26

Reading between the lines it seems that promoting breastfeeding is the reason some people get out of bed in the morning, so it would be great for them if they hear what has been said on this thread and many others - being too evangelical about it has the effect of alienating other women, not binding them to your cause. I read the article and took in that Charlotte Church 'loved nursing her daughter'...

lululemonrefuser · 02/07/2008 12:28

""and the very real demands of modern life on us and our children"

Other than work, what would you say it about the modern woman's life that makes continued breastfeeding so difficult for her - other than her own and other people's attitudes and beliefs about breastfeeding?"

This was my comment. I haven't got time to read everything in between.

That sentence 'other than work', as someone else said, is the kicker, isn't it? How can you feed your baby the evolution-demanded many small feeds if you are not with them, either through necessity or choice?

But it isn't just about work - you are absolutely right. I didn't, personally, have an 'attitude or belief' about breastfeeding beyond expecting that I would do it, and getting on with it. Women have babies later in life, in their thirties, perhaps, already with a strong sense of their own self and how their daily life should be. That might well not include carrying and eight month baby around all day every day giving it frequent feeds. Unless you are going to unpick the whole of modern society, I don't really how you are going to get away from that.

Anyway - all this is beside the point really. I just think that there is much more room in the breastfeeding world for more recognition of personal experience, and less condemnation of anyone who actually does breastfeed but then fails to toe the party line on how wonderful it is!

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:30

DB, I think it's a bloody good job there are women who are so committed to breastfeeding support out there - it's a thankless task a lot of the time and you get a LOT of flack for it, when women apply their own interpretation of what you actually mean onto your words [bitter experience]

But I do also agree that there is a lot to be said for a pragmatic, non-alienating approach to it all. I don't always hit this target myself, but I do aspire to it

devonblue · 02/07/2008 12:31

Point taken re the thankless nature of it HM, and thanks for understanding what I meant.

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:40

I think when you've been having these conversations for years (and I am a mere child compared to some bf supporters/campaigners - I've only got about 4.5 years under my belt!), you get frustrated in a different way.

But it's important to keep having the discussions, because they do evolve. This is one of the more enlightened "mainstream" sites out there, which is why I'm drawn to it again and again (dammit!) - more likely to look beyond the "why does anyone care about how anyone else feeds their baby?" and "happy mum, happy baby" and "don't make women feel guilty" - and I think it's vital to move the debate beyond that.

When I first started posting here, the debate was very heated, very confrontational and the 1,000+ post threads were commonplace. There were fewer breastfeeding supporters on the threads then - and far more "bf nazi" sort of insults. This has changed, subtly, although it does still happen.

sabire · 02/07/2008 12:48

"I didn't, personally, have an 'attitude or belief' about breastfeeding beyond expecting that I would do it, and getting on with it."

Of course you did. We have expectations and beliefs about everything that is part of the world we live in - whether they're acknowledged consciously or not.

"Women have babies later in life, in their thirties, perhaps, already with a strong sense of their own self and how their daily life should be."

Yes - and interestingly the group who are most likely to bf and most likely to bf for a year or more ARE women in their late 30's who have had professional careers.

" That might well not include carrying and eight month baby around all day every day giving it frequent feeds."

You don't have to 'carry a baby around' all day to continue breastfeeding. The point I was making about our normal feeding practices undermining long term bf was a fair one, but it's still the case that many women who carry on bf also have normal lives - they work, they look after other children and they participate in social life. At least that's true of the women I know who bf their children long term.

"Unless you are going to unpick the whole of modern society, I don't really how you are going to get away from that."

You don't have to 'unpick the whole of society' - you just have to make it known that long term bf is a) healthy and normal for both mothers and babies and b) possible for most women living 'normal' and 'average' lives, including those women who work, study and have other children.

"I just think that there is much more room in the breastfeeding world for more recognition of personal experience, and less condemnation of anyone who actually does breastfeed but then fails to toe the party line on how wonderful it is!"

The attitudes of almost EVERY mother I know about bf, before they start is shaped utterly by what they know of other people's personal experiences of breastfeeding, which is why you so often hear the classic phrase falling from pregnant women's lips: "I'm going to TRY to breastfeed, but if it doesn't work I'm not going to beat myself up about it." Women in the UK often embark on breastfeeding expecting to fail, and expecting that even if they don't have problems bf, they'll be bottlefeeding by the time their baby is walking.

Celebrities aren't stupid (well,not all of them). CC would have been approached by lobbiests from the bf lobby. She knows that she's being seen as a role model for young bf mothers. It's just a shame she didn't choose to do any reading or deeper thinking on the subject before she opened her mouth. I know if I was going to be questioned on some aspect of my personal experience that had public health implications, I'd want to do a bit of research before spouting off.

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 12:51

Agree re expectation of failure wrt bfing, Sabire, but I do think that in order for things to change drastically, the fabric of society does need a bit of a restitch.

After all, the mother/baby pairing is way down the list of so many people's priorities - even mothers themselves these days. The commonly-stated line "I ff so his dad could feed too" - for instance.

weejie · 02/07/2008 12:52

dear god, I feel like I'm having deja vu - endless debates on here where it seems to be difficult to say anything other than bf is amazing, you must all do it as long as possible...well of course it is, but its difficult, it can be painful, people's breasts do leak...there feels like so much finger wagging, you bad mother, you didn't try hard enough going on here...

devonblue · 02/07/2008 12:54

There you go again Sabire - my attitude wasn't shaped utterly by other people's personal experiences of breastfeeding. It was based totally on scientific evidence that bf is best for the baby (in most cases, but let's not get into that).

I am fairly detached from the debate, but I think if you really care about bf you need to at least listen when people are telling you (actually very gently) that your comments are coming across as patronising or antagonistic. It really isn't the way to encourage people to do what you want.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/07/2008 12:58

The last thing Charlotte Church's career needs is to come across as preachy. She has built her career on being 'one of us'. She has breastfed and extolled it's virtues. For whatever reason she has stopped breastfeeding, and she has now articulated her experience in a way that will strike a chord with other women. That is pretty canny on her part. I honestly don't think she can be held to account for any failure to provide an acceptable public health message.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/07/2008 12:58

its

AuntieSocial · 02/07/2008 12:59

Victoria Beckham, really??

misdee · 02/07/2008 13:00

i love that pic of lucy lawness linked from hunkers blog. thats one that always sticks in my mind.

misdee · 02/07/2008 13:01

Auntie lol, i did a bit of a double take at VB as well. no idea why though.

hunkermunker · 02/07/2008 13:03

It's not possible for one person's words to change things for everyone, but they will be powerful for some. I think many women will be encouraged that CC got to six months, many women will huff and say, "It's OK for her, I bet she has 17 nannies" and still others will say, "Oh, ffs, why couldn't she have fed for longer?"

I do get a bit at the "breastfeed at all costs; I did it" message some people espouse.

misdee · 02/07/2008 13:07

as much as i loved feeding dd3 for two years, with this next one, i am still going to take it day by day

hatrick · 02/07/2008 13:12

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