17 week old and baby rice

[pamelat]

Any opinions?

The health visitor has asked me to wait another week as she is still gaining weight well but she is cranky (and has been for 2 weeks or so), waking frequently at night, grabbing my toast (!) and crying when she cant have it.

I believe she is genuinely hungry, especially at night.

Health visitor said to put her in her own room instead as that could be why is waking so frequently but personally I would rather satisfy her hunger and have her near us?

I know that 17 weeks is meant to be the earliest you start it but what are the negatives for starting it at 17 weeks?

On a more practical note, Tori, (and related to Starlight's very good point that it's you that needs the sleep training!) it's possible to train yourself to fall asleep at will.

I learned to do it when I was doing a lot of night work and it saved my bacon when the dds came along. It meant that although I was waking up a lot at night, I didn't waste any sleep opportunities.

I find it hard to explain what I do to fall asleep, but a friend of mine with insomnia was describing self-hypnosis to me and it sounded exactly like what I was doing. A way of relaxing and letting go of your thoughts really.

Maybe worth a try?

Haven't seen Extreme Makeover - is this going to shatter my illusions then?

I am still waiting for tori to explain how she thinks pro-breastfeeding websites carry out research....

LOL at women in developing nations have more time to bf....Yes, because they just sit around

I didn't say more time to breast feed, I said closer community and family support systems i.e. my family and close friends live 5hrs away. In the developing world families tend to live in the same community which helps no end.

I have to say, I really feel for poor amalot, who probably regrets posting anything regards to weaning, and hopefully doesnt believe some of the absolute load of croc that has been posed on here.

Tori - you talk rubbish! And that is coming from someone that weaned her ds at 4 and a half months (4 months was recommended then), and formula fed him, and is (mainly) formula feeding my ds2.

I do too! Pamelat, hope you're not under the sofa with your hands over your head!

I don't really know why this is such a debate about ff and bf, sleep training and careers etc etc, when it seems quite clear cut to me:

1. all the scientific (peer-reviewed, academic studies in well respected journals) evidence points to it being better for all babies not to be weaned until 6 months
2. er...that's it.

none of this stuff about bf, ff, sleeping through, not sleeping through, hungry, not hungry (is there such as a thing as a not hungry baby?), developed countries, non-developed countries, has the slightest bearing on when to wean if the health of the child is the priority.

ds watched me read from about 10 weeks old. didn't mean he was ready for phonics.

i started weaning at 24 weeks, but he didn't end up actually eating anything until he was about 10 months!

Tori, I don't think women in developed nations who often work around the clock and have many children can compare to women in our country with our "leisure time", mostly only 1 or 2 children and 6-12 month maternity leave. They have probably other things to worry about than freaking out over a slightly cracked nipple though. I really don't think you can compare the two and find women in developing nations coming out with an "easier life" as it seems to me you are doing.

Oh and to Tinkerbellesmum for her posts.

My 3rd is 23 weeks atm and he's been grabbing, watching, not sleeping etc for weeks now.
I tried some puree at 17 weeks, he had a few mouthfulls but didnt get the hang of it at all.
I've laid off since then, apart from last week when he took a croissant off my plate and shoved it in his mouth.

He doesnt get the hang of eating from a spoon at all and tbh I'm not going to force it.

I have been giving him hungry formula and it has helped as the night waking is becoming less frequent.

And fwiw my ds1 didnt wean until he was 11 months.

Pamelat I totally understand how you feel with lack of sleep but agree, if you can, to ride it out. The black-out blind sounds a good idea, I'm going to get one for my 8mo DD's room as it is very light at 5am at this time of year !

I don't understand why a baby should sleep through any better if weaned. I weaned to babies at 4 months and they didn't sleep any better. I think putting babies on solids or giving them ff to sleep better is one of those "mother-in-law-myths".

I wanted to post on this thread as one or two posters really got up my nose, but(and this is why I love mumsnet) VS, kiskidee, hunker etc have already said it, and probably better than I could. Thanks!

I shall now read some other thread while DS catches up on the milk he missed on his extra long walk with daddy this morning

Chipping in late, I realise. My DS is 30 weeks. I have breastfed with no support or family to help. So that has nothing to do with it.

In fact they would all rather I stopped, yet I carry on because I'm such a martyr, suffering is my favourite pasttime!

The idea of women in the developing world having loads of support from their extended family is very jolly, and of course must be true for some families and communities, just as it's true for some people in industrialised nations.

But there are lots of reasons why families and communities break down: lack of jobs leading to migrant labour, civil war, and of course the devastation of HIV.

There's also the fact that most of the world's poor don't have access to power or water in their homes and have to spend a lot of time each day fetching fuel and water from elsewhere. (Just to pick one example.)

When everyone is using all their waking hours just on basic survival there isn't a lot of time left over to help someone else, no matter how much you might want to.

Which is a long way round of saying: a) You can't generalise on the lifestyles of millions of people and b) while not everyone in these places is desperately poor, their lives are overall a LOT harder than anything we have to cope with.

And I forgot to mention a crucial reason why extended family support might not work: There's no law that says that in developing nations, MILs and SILs have to be lovely, helpful people!

Some families work well together, some don't, it's the same the world over.

tori - are you withdrawing your daft remarks about pro-breastfeeding websites carrying out reearch?

OK fair comment about the research not coming from pro-breastfeeding sights. However, there seems to be no unbiased web sight re infant feeding.
I have been away to look at some sites and I found this interesting http:/www.ich.ucl.ac.uk/clinical_information/clinical_guidelines/cpg_guideline_00048/#rationals908
This site does acknowledge the WHO guidelines but also says that some babies may benefit from earlier weaning. It says that sick babies may benefit to ensure adequate nutrition. Now if what you all say is correct then they must also be aware that breast milk is higher in calorific content than food, so why would they advise earlier weaning instead, to increase nutritional adequacy It doesn't make any sense, especially as a sick child is already compromised iyswim. Therefore I would conclude that the risk must be minimal if at all different at 4mths from 6mths.

tori you cannot conclude from one clinical guideline that there is no risk from early weaning at 4 mths
also that guideline is written for in patients in an acute children's hospital there will be very little 'weaning' going on there as most patients will be short stay

at the end of the day, if there is some evidence to suggest that weaning later is better in terms of allergies and skin problems and gut problems, it is not really rocket science to then say, well, maybe i'll wean later, just to be on the safe side... that is all it boils down to .

that is my non scientific take on the whole thing, and i am a non breastfeeding mother, so my nipples have naff all to do with my opinions.

i am sorry that the giving of correct, scientific , well researched information is deemed as being holier than thou

wean early, wean late, do BLW or puree or whatever you want, but do it having made an informed decision

Actually that would be where you are wrong. The guidelines cover acute and chronic conditions in children with short and long term health problems. (thats what GOS hospital specialise in.) The point being that these guidelines have to be based on the latest research. I can speculate on the differences in risk factors between weaning at 4 or 6mths based on the fact that I doubt the NHS would have guidelines that put ill children at risk.
PS My next door neighbours dd has CF and has been advised that she will probably need to be weaned at 3mths because there will not be adequate calories in breast milk. I am pretty sure that HCP's would not put the child at risk, so I conclude that the risk is either negligeable or non-existent.

you cannot then extrapolate that to cover children without such illnesses.. but if you were, then it would be more true to say they were receiving adequate nutrition from milk alone until later than 4 motnhs..

anyway, like i said, it is about making an informed decision.

I have informed myself and knowing the pros and cons will probably do it at 4mths like I did with dd1, who is perfectly healthy and bang on weight wise.