Really crap day - baby losing weight and been advised to ff

[EllieG]

That's it basically - DD who is 10 days old got weighed today and she had lost over a pound which is too much. MW knows how important it is to me to BF but said she would have to speak to paediatrician. He initally said to give formula after every BF but she pointed out that would be crap for my supply so they said to give one ff in the evening, which have just done.

I have had probs BF from the start, have very flat nipples so been using shields, and they think this is the reason why she is not gaining weight properly. Thing is, she is alert, pink, sleeping and feeding (I thought) well, pooing and weeing properly and generally happy. DP queried whether she might actually have been weighed incorrectly at hospital and given wrong birth weight, which they said was possible, but unlikely, and that we would never know. Today I was advised to express after every feed to boost my milk supply and we have had the worst day EVER. She clearly hasn't had enough food and hasn't slept properly and been miserable all day. I gave her a bottle of the expressed milk and she's just had her 3oz of formula, whereupon she has finally gone to sleep. DP said 'Ah well that was the problem then, we just need to ff her, she was too hungry'

I feel just horrible. Have been crying all day, feel like such a failure as a mother that I can't feed my daughter and she isn't gaining weight properly. MW said that, 'she isn't starving but she's not thriving' and I feel so bad. But have followed their advice today and she has been really hungry and unhappy and other days she hasn't been. They are coming back tomorrow and monday and if she hasn't gained 40g by monday they said I have to ff. DP doesn't understand why I feel so rotten and I know is not logical but I feel like I've failed her.

Sorry for long moaning post. Can't stop crying now is so stupid. Advice please.

Ellie no real advice 4 you just wanted to send you some hugs and say well done you for persevering. As you know i have the same problem and all I can say is it does get easier bit by bit. DD2 is now 4 weeks and managing to feed without the shields now, just have to be extra careful with positioning as can still get sore really quickly.

Hope things start settling down quickly for you and dont feel guilty about anything - you are trying you best and that is all you can do.

PS - it may be worth pointing out to DH the financial implications of switching to formula, my DH is a tight fisted git so is all for BF

No real advice as such but just to say, i know its hard but try not to worry too much. My DS1 lost weight and i was told to ff..i resisted inititally but then did give formula top ups after bf. DS was fine and we were fully bf again within a couple of weeks.

I expressed lots too and its not great but does work. I also continued to express once a day and used to give one expressed milk feed a day which worked well for us as gave me a mental break ffrom bf.

By giving some formula now you are not necessarily going down a one way street to ff. Sounds like you are doing a great job.

do what ever feeding combination you need to,to get through it.You sound like your doing everything right and trying really hard.Don't be hard on yourself,time will fly by and whatever you do be proud of yourself.Your a good mum with out a doubt

so glad LLL were helpful. Expressing really helped me, but had to get a hospital pump [they hire them out] the shop bought one was pants.

Ellie - none of my dc regained their birthweight till age 1 month and they were exclusively bf. Can only think the reason the health profs are making so much fuss for you is that you have flat nipples.

Ameda Egnell hire out the big heavy breast pumps. One of those might help you express more. The more your baby (or the machine) sucks, the more milk you will make. The milk production can be a little slow with a first baby - I know it was for me, but it doesn't mean you can't bf your baby, and pumping will increase your supply, as will persevering with baby at the breast.

Being stressed out is not helping. Any one telling you that you can't do it, or it's not worth the bother, is not helping. Eat, drink, rest, feed your baby and relax. Be with your baby as much as possible, eg baby in sling, co-sleep. It will be for a short time, trust me.

Good luck, and well done for sticking with it so far. It will be worth it when you have established bf and don't need supplementing any more.

Ellie- if you look at the april thread you'll see that Bas is also having weight gain issues, has been stuck at 8lb for 3 weeks now, re-weigh tomorrow. Desperately dont want to ff either, and holding out as long as possible. was doing ok until some comments from dad, and am now more tearful and strressed. hold each others hands, yes?

aw sorry Peachy. Have you tried the pump?

No, but I dont think there's a problem with my feeding, I think its genetics- well paed told me that with each of the other boys- as fara s I can work out the reason theyre all about 2 stone is that they have a particularly fast metabolism, that simple.

difficult. although good for them when they get older i suppose! [fast metabolism that is]. Do hope you get the right advice [sorry to be so lame, don't really know what to suggest if your supply is ok.]

Hey people - this thread was so darn useful before that am giving it another go....

DD did not gain any weight and now has to be ff top up after every bf. So the feeds go - bf, ff top up, express. Which is time consuming but I really want to keep up the bf so will have to carry on. Apart from at night when I can't be arsed to make up a bottle and she seems happy with just breast. She is being weighed again tomorrow and I really hope she has gained cos can't think what else to do.

Need some advice please - want to get her off formula as it gives Molly a tummy ache but I can't see how I can get my milk supply up - am expressing as much as can and feeding whenever she needs it but my boobs aren't producing enough! Any ideas about boosting milk production?

Plus - am still using nipple shields and know I should stop but am scared of trying as know it will hurt. Any tips on how to wean her off them? Have flat nipples. How did you do it denny?

forgot to say - one breast is producing much more milk than the other - in fact is nearly dried up - how can I stop this?

tiiiiikkkkktoooookkkkk - are you there?

I was in this position too, a few months ago. I found it so dispiriting and so hard to have the confidence to trust yourself and your breasts. I can't add much to the advice here but I just wanted to say two things.

We mix fed, giving a little bit of formula /ebm after each feed, with two-hourly feeds for weeks. It did work BUT I often wonder if just by going to bed with the baby and feeding solidly for two or three days I would have got the same result weight-wise. I did feel that going on to mix feeding caused me an immense amount of stress and concern over my milk supply. It might be worth it in the long run, if difficult to have confidence to do in the short run, to purely bf.

Secondly, we did an experiment of feeding with formula top ups for four days and then with ebm for four days and she put on three times as much with the ebm top ups so HAVE CONFIDENCE!! And good luck.

BTW - DD has decided to be exclusively bf - apart from the odd ounce or two of warmed milk which she likes to go to sleep with sometimes. DD 18 weeks now, mum and baby happy and healthy.

So you've been made to feel like this. Wishing you the best of luck. It can all turn out well. We're living proof.

Thankyou susie is good to hear that your dd is now bf well.
how long did you express for after feeds?

Ellie, really hope things get better.

I can't really say a lot, because there's not enough info here....need info on her weight, feeding freq, what you have done so far, are you using two, three or even four breasts, what about breast compression, how accurate is the weight, what's she doing re wees and poos, how much formula, how much ebm....

Babies who are not gaining weight are a real concern - the worry is they might be perfectly ok, and that intervention is not appropriate, but the other worry is that they are not taking in enough calories to really get going with the feeding, and so their feeding actually gets worse

You may need to feed far more often than she appears to 'need it' for instance....skin to skin, biological nurturing posits, will give you more early feeding cues to respond to.

I'll try to answer later this evening if you can give more info.

I can't really say a lot, because there's not enough info here....need info on her weight, feeding freq, what you have done so far, are you using two, three or even four breasts, what about breast compression, how accurate is the weight, what's she doing re wees and poos, how much formula, how much ebm....

Babies who are not gaining weight are a real concern - the worry is they might be perfectly ok, and that intervention is not appropriate, but the other worry is that they are not taking in enough calories to really get going with the feeding, and so their feeding actually gets worse

Thanks tiktok -

her birth weight was 8.5 pounds, and ten days later she was about 7.5. She had gained 10gm 2 days later. She has been checked by paed - she is warm and pink and alert and doing plenty of wees and poos every day. They are not worried that there is something wrong with her, just say that she needs more calories than I am providing.

I am feeding her whenever she seems to want it, which is every 2/3 hours in the day, with a hungry spurt in the evening when she has more, then bf twice during the night. I generally do once on each breast, then express off them. Though she is on to third side at moment cos I can't be bothered to get the pump and would rather it just went straight in if there's anything left! She generally feeds for about 20 mins off the first breast before taking herself off. After bf I give her between 2/3 oz formula depending on how much she wants. She gets whatever I have managed to express in the evening, which is between 1/3 oz, depending on how much I have bf during the day. If I have bf a lot there isn't much left to express and I will only get about half an oz off each breast at any one time. I have tried breast compression and that seems to help sometimes.

Sorry put your reply on to help me remember when typing meant to take it off again!

Get the experts in!
This happened to me, DS was re-admitted to hospital at 6days old having lost 20% of his birthweight. He had FF and EBF through an NG tube. Eventually I got a decent midwife who showed me how to latch him on properly and I BF for a year.
Don't let them frighten you and get help.
Good luck!

Hi, Ellie, I am rushing but here is something, anyway!

I agree - you need real life expert help.

Feeding 2-3 hrly and twice at night is prob not enough for a baby who needs to gain weight pronto - even with the cluster in the evening. I would be wondering if that birthweight was right, though....you haven't said how she is being weighed, and if you are confident it's accurate. She sounds ok from her description

She's having a lot of formula - if she is getting 2-3 ounces 7 or 8 times or more a day, there cannot be room for much breastmilk The rough rule of thumb is 2.5 ounces per pound of body weight in 24 hours....if we do the maths, that's a massive amount, and actually more than she might have if she was fully ff.

Sorry I have to dash, but this sounds a real pickle...you need RL help from someone who can watch you feed, and check milk transfer, and who can work out how to reduce those top ups.

You sound motivated and determined, and that really helps

If you are under the paed, then there may be a bf expert on the team, or you can call one of the helplines (though this is a tricky situation, and I would want a proper bfc, not a peer counsellor, and an experienced one at that).

Well, she started refusing bottles at about 3 months, but I think she'd have gone without before that. Looking back I would have tried it as soon as my milk was established. I do think the least worrisome thing might be to bite the bullet and go for just bf now, but I didn't have the courage to do it.

Thanks tiktok. I was not clear - she feeds 2/3 hourly but sometimes she is too full for formula. She probably gets about 4 lots formula a day.

There is a babycafe on near me on tues. I think I will take her along there and speak to the bf counselor.

And no - am not at all confident she was weighed correctly at birth but I guess will never know

A bf counsellor really helped me. As did the videos by Jack NEwman on www.thebirthden.com website.

Sorry - I can't do the link. The website doesn't seem to be working properly at the moment.

Reading your message brought back so many memories. At 3 days old, my son had lost 11% of his body weight - they worry at anything over 10%. The midwife assistant told me I had to breastfeed ever 3 hours for 15mins each side and give 2oz of formula after each feed, and express for 10mins after each feed. I said how important breastfeeding was to me and that I did not want to give formula and she said "well, it's either that or your son goes into hospital to have a drip put in his arm. Is that what you want?" So, of course, we started on the formula and feeding regime.
If I could turn back time, I would find a breastfeeding expert and ask their advice. Feeding on a routine felt wrong at the time, as did limiting his time on the breast, but I didn't know enough to argue.
Anyway, we got through that and I managed to exclusively breastfeed for a while but we ran into more problems and he's been on formula since 10 weeks old. I don't know if the early problems with breastfeeding led to the later ones, and ultimately to me giving up but it certainly didn't help and made me feel like the worst mother ever. I thought I was doing really well with the feeding and my beautiful boy was losing weight He was also dehydrated (lack of wet nappies, hoarse cry, urates in nappy) so I know he was not getting enough and it wasn't just a case of wonky weighing or growth charts.

My advice to you is to listen to the HVs etc but realise that they are not breastfeeding experts. Talk to La Leche League (I had great help from them via email) and get to as many clinics as you can. In the meantime, make sure you are eating well and drinking lots of water and breastfeed as much as you can.
Huge hugs to you, I know how hard it is.