Really crap day - baby losing weight and been advised to ff

[EllieG]

That's it basically - DD who is 10 days old got weighed today and she had lost over a pound which is too much. MW knows how important it is to me to BF but said she would have to speak to paediatrician. He initally said to give formula after every BF but she pointed out that would be crap for my supply so they said to give one ff in the evening, which have just done.

I have had probs BF from the start, have very flat nipples so been using shields, and they think this is the reason why she is not gaining weight properly. Thing is, she is alert, pink, sleeping and feeding (I thought) well, pooing and weeing properly and generally happy. DP queried whether she might actually have been weighed incorrectly at hospital and given wrong birth weight, which they said was possible, but unlikely, and that we would never know. Today I was advised to express after every feed to boost my milk supply and we have had the worst day EVER. She clearly hasn't had enough food and hasn't slept properly and been miserable all day. I gave her a bottle of the expressed milk and she's just had her 3oz of formula, whereupon she has finally gone to sleep. DP said 'Ah well that was the problem then, we just need to ff her, she was too hungry'

I feel just horrible. Have been crying all day, feel like such a failure as a mother that I can't feed my daughter and she isn't gaining weight properly. MW said that, 'she isn't starving but she's not thriving' and I feel so bad. But have followed their advice today and she has been really hungry and unhappy and other days she hasn't been. They are coming back tomorrow and monday and if she hasn't gained 40g by monday they said I have to ff. DP doesn't understand why I feel so rotten and I know is not logical but I feel like I've failed her.

Sorry for long moaning post. Can't stop crying now is so stupid. Advice please.

I was in exactly the same boat as you and thought I was doing the right thing by switching to formula, as it was what the midwife suggested. I wish that I had been offered some help instead and been able to continue breast feeding for a bit longer. But, the main thing is that I now have a very healthy toddler and I don't think about it anymore.

EllieG
I think, for a woman who wants to breastfeed (and you're doing really well so far), so called health professionals should not even be allowed to suggest formula feeds. It makes me sick, that, instead of giving you the support you need now, they are trying to make you take the easy option for them.
It is quite conceivable that your DD was weighed incorrectly at birth. Don't let them pressurise you into formula feeding.
You feel your DD is healthy - you are her mother and would be the first person to know if there was something wrong. Trust yourself. Contact La Leche League - they will give you good advice and support.
I had a similar experience with DD1. My health visitor was crap. Luckily I managed to remain strong enough to stick to my belief that I was doing ok, despite threats of hospital intervention by the HV if DD1 failed to gain sufficient weight. In the end she did, although she, now 5 yrs, remains on the 5th percentile (she was on the 50th when she was born). She is healthy, happy, active and slim. (Wish I was! )
As a mum of a newborn baby you are at your most vulnerable, but you must trust your insticts. You will be the one who knows, deep down, what too do. You will do what is best for you and your baby. Good luck. Stay strong. Big hugs.

what to do, sorry
not what too do

Oh god, and centile, not percentile. Sorry. And I expect you to take me seriously?...

Ellie hope you have got the help you need from one of the phone lines, make the decision on how to feed your dd yours and yours alone....... big hugs and hope things aregoing ok tonight

Hi,

I had a similar experience to you. I had flat nipples (like none existant) and I took my ds home at 5 and a half weeks using nipple shields. After a week I had a visit from the midwife and he'd lost weight. His nappies were very dry and my milk supply had started to dwindle. I wasn't told to ff, but I decided to start expressing again while trying to bf with the shields still (was impossible without)and fed him EBM in a bottle. Eventually I gave up because the schedule of feeding, bottlefeeding EBM and then expressing, washing up and starting the whole rigmarole again half an hour later, well it just got too much. I ended up just expressing milk for 6 months. It isn't easy but with the right info it is totally possible and worked for me. There are loads of tricks to make the whole routine work more easily.

I remember how gutted I was when he had lost weight so I really can empathise . I really, really really wanted to bf and cried so much. However, just remember whatever happens you are doing the best you can for your baby. It seems like such a long way away to me now he's 14 months and doesn't have a bottle and drinks cows milk.

If weight gain is the only thing then maybe it isn't so bad, but do look out for greenish and dry nappies and signs that your milk supply is going down. That would probably indicate that your baby might need some help with milk transfer and isn't getting the milk out very efficiently.

I hope some of this helps, and you sort things out .

Ellie, having been in a similar position I couldn't let this pass without lending some support and a {{hug}}.

You don't have to formula feed, but you might have to spend tomorrow in bed, resting and having a babymoon. Make sure you are eating well and drinking plenty of water. I also take Neals Yard Beauty Oil which has all the Essential Fatty Acids and Omegas for good nutrition. It is very important that you are healthy and rested. You can take some supplements from Breastfeedingheaven.com which do 'more milk' a tincture you mix with water. (Its gross BTW!)

I too had to express after every feed, and give a bottle of expressed 'hind' milk in the evening as a top up. I kept the pump in the fridge with the top on and didn't sterilise inbetween times BTW, just once a day.

It was bloody hard work, and knackering, but we got there. I owe it to a fab GP and self-belief (after 3 other DCs I still felt like a failure - so completely understand). It is hard to ignore a health professional, but they are not always right. this thread might help but it takes a lot of perseverence and determination sometimes. Good luck.

foxy, don't mean to split hairs but can I ask what you mean by a bottle of 'hind' milk, hind/fore milk are very often explained badly or not totally understood and I just want to help Ellie as much as possible.

Ellie, I second what everyone else here says about the bf helplines- NCT were fab for me with dd1. And dh did give dd1 a bottle of formula almost every evening for about 9 weeks, then it just tailed off as both dd and I got better at the feeding lark. So, just to say you can move from mixed feeding to exclusive bf. You're doin' great, girl!

The NCT weren't very helpful to me. I made an appt for a breastfeeding lady to come and see me, and she cancelled twice and couldn't come for another two weeks so it was too late by then

Ellie, keep going you're doing so well, no-one can tell you that you have to give formula. And no-one can make you weigh her either. If you are comfortable with her general health then maybe put it off for a day or so? Weight isn't the be all and end all of a baby's health, surely they know this?

I can't believe (or can I?) how little notice they're taking of you/the MUM's thoughts on how feeding was going!!To me it sounds like they've taken no notice of the fact you say things seemed fine,nappies,sleeping etc and come along and ruined all your hard work by undermining you and making you question things.Putting you under unnecessary pressure.You're not a performing monkey!!Neithers your lo.I think the bloody cheek of it!Right now your the one bf not them.I'd use some of the contacts above and try to muster your strength to find some PROPER support from people who know what they're talking about and who don't back new mums into a corner with unnecessary pressure so they can tick some boxes.Babies and mums are all different.I'm really sorry you've had this experience.I'm for the babymoon where you get everything you need and just be kind to yourself (better still find someone else to do that)and relax just you and baby.I'd say you had it down just right and you should go back to doing things how you were with some extra support from bf group/person.I'm crossing my fingers that you don't have to put up with anymore of that...

Hi Ellie, I was in your position a few months back with my 7 month old Ds2. He was born at 33+5 weeks and weighed 4lb 8oz, he left SCBU weighing 4lb 5oz. I was fully BF and he wasn't gaining weight at all. Over 6 weeks he dropped from the 50th to below the 0.4th

A feeding tube was inserted to give him EBM after every BF, he gained weight, tube removed, weight lost, tube in, tube out from oct-dec. I was also told that I would have to stop BF and FF if he didn't gain weight. The week I was told that, Callum gained 9oz purely on BM. But the following week he only gained 2oz. We did give in and gave him this high energy formula that the hospital gave us and yes it did make him put on weight, so much that he went back up 2 precentiles.

I was then finally seen by a BF councillor in feb and was given lots of advice, and she said to stop with the formula and go back to full BF, which we did.

Callum has been on solids for about 5 weeks now, with BFs and the odd bottle of formula here and there (he can be very stubborn and refuses to feed sometimes) and now is dropping back towards the 0.4th which is where me and my HV think he is supposed to be. The high energy formula gave a false reading.

He is still BF and I am proud of myself for keeping at it, when so many HCPs were being so forceful with me to give up. I believe that Callum is a small child and will always be a small child.Giving him the formula gave an Artifitial weight gain.

Please phone one of the numbers, I phone the ABM and the lady I spoke to was very helpful. I know that weight gain is the be all and end with HCPs but sometimes they don't know what to do with a 'sereve FTT baby' (as Callum was discribed, though in truth he was just catching down) and all they see is 'must get weight onto that baby'

Callum was a good weight for 33 weeks but they forget that I had diabetes in pregnancy and I struggled with my diet control, so he was bigger than he was supposed to be.

I had 2 weekly weigh-ins at the start, which went to weekly at about 3 months. After seeing the BF councillor I stopped having him weighed each week, and now I have him weighed when I can bothered to go to the BF clinic (he is 13lb 8oz now at 7 months) but as a result of my experience with BF a premmie and facing so much pressure and resisting it, I have been asked to train as a 'Breastfeeding peer supporter'

Sorry its so long, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and there is support for you out there.

Good luck

Hi Ellie, I was in your position a few months back with my 7 month old Ds2. He was born at 33+5 weeks and weighed 4lb 8oz, he left SCBU weighing 4lb 5oz. I was fully BF and he wasn't gaining weight at all. Over 6 weeks he dropped from the 50th to below the 0.4th

A feeding tube was inserted to give him EBM after every BF, he gained weight, tube removed, weight lost, tube in, tube out from oct-dec. I was also told that I would have to stop BF and FF if he didn't gain weight. The week I was told that, Callum gained 9oz purely on BM. But the following week he only gained 2oz. We did give in and gave him this high energy formula that the hospital gave us and yes it did make him put on weight, so much that he went back up 2 precentiles.

I was then finally seen by a BF councillor in feb and was given lots of advice, and she said to stop with the formula and go back to full BF, which we did.

Callum has been on solids for about 5 weeks now, with BFs and the odd bottle of formula here and there (he can be very stubborn and refuses to feed sometimes) and now is dropping back towards the 0.4th which is where me and my HV think he is supposed to be. The high energy formula gave a false reading.

He is still BF and I am proud of myself for keeping at it, when so many HCPs were being so forceful with me to give up. I believe that Callum is a small child and will always be a small child.Giving him the formula gave an Artifitial weight gain.

Please phone one of the numbers, I phone the ABM and the lady I spoke to was very helpful. I know that weight gain is the be all and end with HCPs but sometimes they don't know what to do with a 'sereve FTT baby' (as Callum was discribed, though in truth he was just catching down) and all they see is 'must get weight onto that baby'

Callum was a good weight for 33 weeks but they forget that I had diabetes in pregnancy and I struggled with my diet control, so he was bigger than he was supposed to be.

I had 2 weekly weigh-ins at the start, which went to weekly at about 3 months. After seeing the BF councillor I stopped having him weighed each week, and now I have him weighed when I can bothered to go to the BF clinic (he is 13lb 8oz now at 7 months) but as a result of my experience with BF a premmie and facing so much pressure and resisting it, I have been asked to train as a 'Breastfeeding peer supporter'

Sorry its so long, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and there is support for you out there.

Good luck

whoops sorry

Ellie, hope you get good help. No one can say you must not supplement with formula - and no one can say all is well with your baby - just from reading your story here.

But if it's thought your baby needs more milk, then it can come from you but without the shields if possible, and frequently...you haven't said how often your baby is feeding, and upping the freq. and making sure she has at least two breasts, and if poss, three or four, each time will help.

Sometimes, babies who have really not been feeding well need help - for example, supplementary ebm - to give them the energy to feed better. I have no idea if this applies to you, and nor does anyone else here, so do keep a dialogue going with the midwives.

You cannot be forced to formula feed.

call someone and speak to them, then you will be well-informed for speaking with the midwives.

itsahardknocklife, sorry you felt let down by NCT. We are volunteers, doing this in our own time. Family and other stuff sometimes get in the way. Maybe you could have seen someone else,if there was another bfc in your area. I have had to change people's appointments as well at times

Ellie, I second everything that has been said here. It is better to BF exclusively and to build up your supply -but supplement feeding is not the end of the world. Don't let them bully you into doing something you don't think is right. Phone the helplines as soon as possible.
Whatever happens it will be ok - and you will not have not failed your baby...logically you may know that but with your hormones all over everywhere it is hard to see...you have to keep telling yourself this is normal and I will feel better soon. I think it is good to cry especially so soon after giving birth...it's part of sorting your hormones out! You really shouldn't feel ashamed about it. You are allowed to cry as much as you like...and sod anyone who thinks you shouldn't or doesn't understand ...men!
My DD2 slept really well for the first few days (hasn't done since!)and then seemed a bit 'jumpy'. The MW sent me to the hospital to get her blood glucose levels checked...
They didn't do a blood test, said she hadn't been fed enough - I should have woken her up more ...and she had lost too much weight (later I found out she hadn't). I had to feed her straight away...I remember sitting in a staff room (while people came and went) desperately and unsuccessfully trying to get this sleepy baby to BF - I was almost hysterically crying. They gave her a ff in front of me and she lapped it up (but I'm guessing by then she had woken up more...and was interested because it was something new).. I carried on sobbing...I left still sobbing. I felt like such a bad mother and such a failure and thought she might not BF again...it felt like the end of the world. I went to the supermarket (still sobbing) and bought some formula and bottles. When I got home she wanted to BF and I stopped sobbing...now I feel quite angry with them for taking advantage of me in my sensitive state.
She was a contented baby (compared to DD1 -chronic colic etc etc -still described as 'lively' now). I used the formula in baby rice when weaning and at 14mths she is still BF...
BTW I think I found out the reason for her being 'jumpy' - pregnancy brain had kicked in when buying my decaff coffee (they had changed the packaging...) so I had been happily drinking gallons of normal coffee!!! Gosh I'm sure I should feel like a terrible mother now....

so sorry Ellie you've got this worry - i really second telephoning the La Leche League - they were very helpful to me when i had breastfeeding problems.

re the helplines just try them all, i think they have more volunteers in some geographical areas thann in others, eg i got great help from 3 local bfn volunteers but we have no nct for miles around, it's just pot luck where you stay how easy it is for these (WONDERFUL!) people to get to you

Victoriansqualor, in answer to your question -

after feeding my baby I expressed what I could, because the baby had fed and therefore had the fore milk (the thirst quenching 'starter') any 'hind' milk (the thicker, creamer 'main course') left could then be kept and added to through the day to give a bottle of ebm later.

I've seen some people on MN claiming there's no such thing as fore/hind milk, or that when the baby feeds they get the hind milk through the foremilk. All that aside, this was recommended to me by my very supportive and pro-bf GP after I had been let down by my HV, in the same way the OP has.

It worked is all I can say.

ellie - poor you, bf is really hard (i wish i'd known that before my dd). not much advice really but only experience to share. my dd took more than 3 weeks to regain birth weight, byt like yours was alert, pooing, weeing and pink so i figured that she was fine. i think to much store is set by weighing - different scales each time, had she just fed or just pooed could make a big difference. i'm still not convinced she was weighed properly in the first place.
i saw several different mw's and a bf counsellor, they were all so nice and very 'convincing' but all said totally different things! so in the end i just followed my instincts. clare byam cook's book was a great help. at 9 weeks i'm still bf, it's still a full time job but much easier than at first although i still don't like it. i had lots of mini targets - another week then i'll think again etc. expressing has been great btw!

keep all your energy for making milk and eat loads!

Well done for not jusrt giving up. What about a babymoon. Lots of skin to skin and 24 hours at least in bed with baby feeding whenever she wants. Get DP to wait on you hand and foot and just eat, sleep, feed and rest.

I do hope it all gets a lot better for you.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I rang the La Leche League last night and the woman I spoke to was brilliant, gave me loads of good advice and meant I was a bit more informed when MW came today. I did give her some formula in the wee small hours this morning after she had fed constantly for about 3 hours and was still hungry. She lapped it up and I sobbed but am feeling a bit more positive today. She had a ff at lunchtime so I could go and sleep but she also had ebm bottle too, and the expressing seems to be working a bit better, boobs feel fuller etc. DP is a bit all for - oh, let's just whack her on the formula is much easier, but I have explained to him that I want this to be very much a temporary thing. Anyway must go she's waking up! Time for another feeding marathon.....

Thanks again people, was feeling really shitty last night and having you lot there really helped.

Ellie, I understand you feel crap about giving her the formula, but please remember what I said to PFJ, if you're having such a hard time of it rather than feel guilty and get upset and stressed, try to be proud of every bit of BM you are managing to get into her rather than upset about the bits of formula you're using to tide you over this difficult time, you could easily have decided to give up and you haven't, which in my book is commendable.

ellie glad LLL was a good help. just wanted to 2nd what vs said re the formula - i ended up having to give dd some formula top ups as i could not keep up with the expressing all the time, and i was so gutted - now it is like a dim and distant memory and i can't even remember how to make up a bottle. the formula helped get us over a hurdle and now we are exclusively bf at 5mths - you can do it!