Could somebody please explain to me why the promotion of FF would be such a bad thing?

[conniedescending]

because as long as they don't say or imply its better than BF then I can't really see the problem? Or why we have to get hysterical about how other people feed their babies?

maybe if FF was made out to be not such a bad thing then there would be more mothers actually bf'ing for longer and with subsequent children as they could be supported by mixed feeding their children.

Tiktok what is Gastro-enteritis? Havent heard of it. Genuine question BTW.

think it is a very bad tummy bug....

K999, I was also advised this by my GP when I went in to query my son's discomfort with feeding, vomiting, excess wind, wriggling, screaming in pain apparently.

He said lactose free formula is the only solution. He also said he could send me up to the paeds unit for assessment but they'd simply say the same thing.

I chose not to follow his advice since I thought he was wrong.

Turns out he was.

Well I know I shouldn't join in - but I can't help but say my little bit!

I BF my baby for as long as I felt I could without losing my mind!
Now - I know this thread is not about MY choices, however I feel like I am one of many.
My MW's and HV's were very pro BF - which was great in the beginning - I got loads of support and advice. However they did not offer impartial advice as they would only discuss BF'ing. I had half cock mis understood clinical trials quoted at me (non bf babies are prone to schizophrenia??? = total crap and scaremongering).
If it wasn't for the 'big pharma companies' advertising budgets - I would have had very little info about FF and would have felt very alone and evil for concidering using formula.

I think the best way for bf'ing to be concidered as first choice and gold standard (which it should) then we need to stop fighting, banning, bitching, blaming, making people feel inadequate and scaremongering (how many ff babies die each year ffs!) and try to engage with people. Anyone who has ever been involved with selling concepts or brands will know you can't shoehorn people into doing things - you have to make them want to (feel it's their idea).

The bf'ing rates in the UK don't seem to be getting any better (according to my MW) I think a new strategy is needed.

DKMA why don't you have a read of this thread and the other one about similar issues. You'll find all your points answered there. Many many times.

FWIW K999 asked for the info on mortality...

look, linking to the research after a specific question is not scaremongering
I didn't cut and paste the information here, so if you don't want to read it, then don't click.

Wilfself - I was not looking for 'answers' thanks and was not pointing the finger at anyone (K999) just making a point in general.

Well said DKMA-

A new strategy is needed to promote BF but also too market and inform us on the truths of FF so that those who can't/don't want to BF so we can all make a practical and realistic decision based on the facts not the fancy packaging or peer pressure some may feel on either side.

good point YBND!

I agree YBND - I believe both 'sides' are as bad as each other at the moment which leaves new mums feeling confused, guilty, inadequate etc etc.

damned if we do, and damned if we don't
actually, the scaremongering people on this thread (tiktok, sabire for example) and the people out there supporting women day in day out and working towards that new strategy, to ensure that all women are supported and informed.

Yes DKMA - I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad about what is easiest, prefferred or sometimes the only option for them. There are enough hormones going around without worrying about feeding too as long as your baby and you are happy then that should be everyone's main concern!

but many women (the majority, according to the most recent and reliable survey) are not happy about switching to formula feeding when they did.
those women need support and practical help and not platitudes and misinformation

ybnd - when you said this "but also too market and inform us on the truths of FF so that those who can't/don't want to BF so we can all make a practical and realistic decision based on the facts not the fancy packaging or peer pressure some may feel on either side. "

You were dead right

Do you realise that is EXACTLY what tiktok, Sabire, harpsi and many other posters do? They work tirelessly to share the "truths of FF" as you put it. But they do it tactfully and with sensitivity. And they support women in their choices of how to feed their babies - however that may be. And they do it repeatedly despite having insults and accusations thrown at them.

Can you see that?

There are many people out there doing their best - I don't doubt that peoples intentions are good - wanting the best for everyone and their babies.
I personally found it worrying that the mw /hv that I came into contact with knew about the clinical data and the message they wanted to give - but had no idea of the quality of the data or if it was meaningful (stat sig - p values etc, study designs etc.) Having discussed the schizophrenia data with a prof of psychiatry (this is the area of medicine where I work) it was a load of crap.

Now my problem is - scaremongering like this is just as bad as big misleading ad campaigns by formula companies.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the general public are made to feel wrong by the choices thay have made in the past, or no respect for the pro bf'ers, or bad parents for concidering ff then they will disengage, dig their heels in and we will be no further in our quest to get more babies bf'ed.

This plays right into the hand of the big ff companies - who don't judge and are 'there for everyone' in their time of need!

VLC - I can see your point but feel strongly that fighting and banning is not the way to win on this one.

You do know that formula advertising is already banned, though DKMA? The deed is already done.

I personally don't agree with it.
In my experience HV / MW only 'promote' bf'ing and refused to discuss ff = not impartial advice.
On that note I'm off to bed

Oh and one last point!
Has the ban in advertising formula increased the rate of bf'ers in the uk?

And I agree with what you said about uninformed scaremongering, fwiw.

But

If you read what people have been posting here, it is a world apart from a well meaning but potentially damage causing HV or MW quoting research and statistics they cannot substantiate.

Being able to differentiate the reliable facts from the dross is crucial. Choosing which source of information to trust is critical. Take a really good look at the "side" of the pro bfrs, as you see it. Judge them on their words and the quality of their information. Are they really "as bad" as you stated earlier?

Is correcting damaging misinformation a good thing? Or is it "fighting"?

DKMA - A little thought to go to bed on... You might be all for empirical evidence in a statistically controlled environment, which you understand. That doesn't mean a shiny sh**te to someone who believes that 'this brand' is the one you need to buy to give your child the blah de blah, see the last 6 pages.

The truth is, we don't need to buy much and we certainly don't need to be upsold by shiny advertising. I won't go into the whole story - it's been told here ad infinitum, but I don't feel I can let you go to bed with an easy conscience (could never spell that damned word, though I know when to use it) asking such a dumb assed question. So shoot me.

I think we want the same outcome but I struggle to see how the strategy will work tbh.
I don't disagree with anything that has been said by the pro bf'ers (in a way I am one myself too!) I just don't think the tactics are working.
'ban this' 'sign that petition' etc etc = more and more disengagement by the majority (who have at somepoint come into contact with ff either themselves as babies or with their own children).
I wonder if these 'fights' are more damaging than helpful.

Defo hitting the sack now!

Bendi - wtf are you on about?

What can I help you understand DKMA?