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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

who *isn't* ashamed to admit using formula?

635 replies

LookingForwardToSummer · 30/04/2008 11:42

feeling crap after reading the 'exclusive breastfeeding' thread! i find bf really hard and have set myself the target of 5 months, i intend to feel very proud that i went that long and then use formula happily! i can't be the only one! all the stats show low bf rates - so where is everyone?

OP posts:
sabire · 02/05/2008 09:46

"THere are risks involved with everything, posting stuff like that up is just scaremongering"

Please don't accuse people of 'scaremongering' when you have no proof that this is what they're doing. It's hurtful and unfair.

The risks associated with ff are well known among all health professionals who've received training on infant feeding in the past 10 years. In other words - this information is common currency among well-trained midwives and health visitors.

That doesn't mean that babies SHOULDN'T be given formula or that mothers should feel they MUST breastfeed no matter what the emotional of physical cost to them or their child.

And yes - there are risks involved with everything. And as parents we generally want to know what these risks are so that we can decide whether we are comfortable in exposing our children to them.

AitchTwoCiao · 02/05/2008 09:54

"as has been pointed out, formula has changed these days".

as has been pointed out On The Side Of The Pack, By The Manufacturers. ROFL.

anything else to back that up or are we sticking with advertorial, hedgewitch?

tiktok · 02/05/2008 09:56

TheHedgeWitch, formula changes all the time. The ingredients are market led. If one brand adds ingredient X, then other brands follow. If a particular source of oils becomes expensive, they'll go somewhere else for it.

The basic formulation remains the same throughout, of course - the role of the additives does not impact on that. The risks of formula lie mainly in the fact that it is based on a foreign (ie cows) protein, as opposed to human, and in the lack of antibodies which impact on health (by making the baby more vulnerable to infectection). So research done on formula versus breastfeeding in these areas will apply whatever additives are there.

There is no long-term research done on these additives at all - none. The idea that 'if these things were harmful they would be banned' is very naive.

Manufacturers have to ensure that these new ingredients do not affect the growth of babies, that's all, and there is no research tracking the babies who have formula with these things in - it would take years.

Some countries are stricter than we are about new ingredients, and don't permit the sale of formula with them in, because they simply have not been around long enough to give the authorities confidence they are 100 per cent safe.

So asking for more recent research because formula changes is pointless.

AitchTwoCiao · 02/05/2008 09:59

i think they might have banned that nanny milk, yurt, i remember people being up in arms about it here. riven, you sound like you have a lot on your plate, i hope that the next thing you try works out. when's the tube feeding likely to start? might it be temporary?

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:01

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tiktok · 02/05/2008 10:02

Just to clarify:

infant formula milk is always* basically the same - and this applies across brands (apart from specialist stuff like soya or goats). There are two main kinds of it (whey-based or casein-based)

  • additives and novel ingredients are introduced very regularly - but they do not impact on the basic 'identicalness' of the formula. These are the 'justification' for flashes on packs saying 'now even closer to breastmilk' or 'inspired by breastmilk'...both of which claims are illegal, by the way, but which continue to be used
tiktok · 02/05/2008 10:04

"The question i want to ask, is what purpose does it serve to put it out there in a thread thats about not being ashamed to formula feed?"

You asked this, THW.

The answer is because all threads are a conversation. They are a dialogue. People ask things, they challenge things, they deny things, they want to know more.

If you don't like this, prob best to stay off forums on the internet.

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:05

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AitchTwoCiao · 02/05/2008 10:08

it's funny, this discussion, because as someone who mix fed then ff dd i would try really hard to excl bf another child BUT i probably would give up earlier and not put myself through all the pain of mix feeding if it wasn't working out. and i wouldn't feel guilt or shame in doing so.

but that doesn't mean i can't see the formula isn't as good as bm, or that i soak up every piece of formula advertising as gospel or that i don't think that the bfing support i had was pretty miserable and i'm fighting at my local hospital to improve it.

i don't see any conflict between those positions, but last night someone on another thread snidely said to another poster that at least by my being on that thread (one about telly) it meant that some poor formula feeding mum wasn't getting it in the neck. i pointed out that i was a ff mum but they've not responded.

why would i be giving out to ff mums? i was one myself and given my medical history will in all likelihood be one again. as an ffing mum i think it's All The More important that i'm not given advertising in place of research, surely? why do people find that so hard to understand?

AitchTwoCiao · 02/05/2008 10:09

"surely research should be ongoing"

what research, hedgewitch? who's doing it? i don't understand.

youngbutnotdumb · 02/05/2008 10:10

As someone said to me on another thread don't dare mention FF it is the work of the devil according to the BF mafia!!! No point in arguing with them they r always rite and I couldn't BF therefore I must be a terrible mother anyone know the number of childline? And I can pass it on to my son? who was FF for the first year of his life BTW and he's alive. my friend BF both her children and both have eczema and both are always loaded with colds or something or other! But tht doesn't mean BF is bad does it? Yet if it's a FF baby it's because they weren't BF. The word HYPOCRITICALsprings to mind!?!

youngbutnotdumb · 02/05/2008 10:11

Wasn't aimed at anyone BTW am just venting

HereComeTheGirls · 02/05/2008 10:12

Don't you think that saying "breast milk is better than formula" is a lot different to saying "the risks associated with formula"? I definitely accept the former but the latter does sound a wee bit like scaremongering. I must add though, that I do not know much about the subject and of course if there are real risks then it is a concern. And I am worried as Riven is going through a lot and now is getting worried about exposing her DD to risk as well. I think that may be where the allegations of scaremongering are coming from...?...

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:13

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tiktok · 02/05/2008 10:15

Of course research should be ongoing, of course these products should not be brought to market without long-term research, of course parents should know the possible impact, or the unknown impact if it is not known, of these new ingredients.

The illegal health claims should be stopped.

Parents should know exactly what they are giving their babies, and the possible or as yet unknown side effects or risks.

You speak as if you think I am in favour of no research!

We have mountains of research showing ff babies are at greater risk, in this country, of a range of minor and major health conditions, from tummy upsets, to hospitalisation, to diabetes, to cot death, and it is highly likely this differential will apply whatever novel ingredent is added.

I think it would be incredibly stupid to assume that the addition of Novel Ingredient X would close this differential - novel ingredients may have an allergic effect on individual babies, for instance, the addition of different fats can make some babies have diarrhoea, and lose water that way (this is one of the reasons these ingredients have yet to be approved in some countries). But in the absence of long-term research, we'd do best t be cautious, wouldn't you agree?

If I had to use formula for some reason, I think I would seek out a brand that had not been changed at all over decades, and I would feel happier that way. But my problem would be I wouldn't know which brand that applied to - because the manufacturers don't let us know.

Failing that, I think I would make my own from diluted and boiled cows milk - which is what mothers routinely did for a long time. At least I would know what was in it....

tiktok · 02/05/2008 10:15

My 10.15 post was to THW.

HereComeTheGirls · 02/05/2008 10:18

Tiktok - Is that the same as just saying that breast fed babies are at LESS risk of these conditions?

ie..do you believe that formula CAUSES them..or do you believe that breast milk PROTECTS against them?...I always thought the latter but am just interested to know your opinion

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:19

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TotalChaos · 02/05/2008 10:20

Herecomethegirls - but I don't see how researchers have found that breastmilk is better, other than finding that there is a higher risk of certain conditions/infections etc amongst formula fed than breastfed babies.

Tiktok - any chance you could recommend a site referencing research as to risks of formula feeding - just I think that Riven might feel less panicky if she could see the actual research.

HereComeTheGirls · 02/05/2008 10:22

Maybe its just semantics -but they could conceivably prove that formula can CAUSE a certain problem, through studies, surely?

tiktok · 02/05/2008 10:22

yuoungbutnotdumb - you are deluded, you really are. No one says because you ff, your kids cannot be alive (ffs)...or because someone bfs, her kids have got to be 100 per cent healthy. You are reading stuff that isn't there.

It's a question of risk. FF has risks. I can run across the road in front of a bus and I might do it 100 times and not get run over. But my risk of being run over is increased if I do this rather than cross at the zebra.

(I am not saying ff is like running in front of a bus....I am trying to explain the concept of risk to you).

HereComeTheGirls · 02/05/2008 10:22

And I genuinely would like to know..am not arguing that it doesn't, i don't know either way!

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:23

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AitchTwoCiao · 02/05/2008 10:25

did anyone read harpsi's link?

TheHedgeWitch · 02/05/2008 10:27

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