was this a stupid thing to say?

[robinrednomorenowemptybreasts]

my cousins just had her third baby, baby is a week old, when talking to my mum after mum had been to visit, mum said the baby was going every three hours, and that she got to have a cuddle after the baby had been fed.

when mum said the baby was being bottlefed, i said oh thats a shame, mum got quite annoyed with me.
i would not of said that to my cousin or aunt or anything.
and now im wondering if i was out of order saying that.
please be honest, i won't mind if you say i was, i just thought it a shame

No tiktok, I was not against it, I just didnt feel the urge to, thats what I think is missed by alot of people with strong feelings about us ff mums. I did not have the urge to breast feed, it would not have been unpleasent for me if I had chosen to, or had needed to, it was a choice I was able to make, and I went the ff route, but I most certainley dont understand why it is such a strong subject for as many mothers as it is.

Of course please forgive me if I am wrong, but isnt one of the main issues I read, and hear on these boards about the colostrum, now Iknow that not all mothers manage to feed the first few weeks, let alone months and have to persiver and so this can not be the only issue, it must be the closeness that is mentioned that bf mothers are so forceful off, but I had this closeness as mentioned earlier with my dc.

I know its not pc to stand tall and say "I bottlefed my children and am proud of it" but it is what it is, and it certainley is not a failure, and not a wrongful thing.

I guess what I am trying to say is this, I ff, you bf, I made a choice you made a choice, thats as simple as it gets, but please I am not against bf, I think it is a wonderful thing as I do ff, infact I applaude all mothers, boobs or no boobs!

I think Moondog is at least honest in her opinion. It is euphemistic to dress up the manner of the delivery.

I have the most huge sympathy for mums who haven't been able to breastfeed for whatever reason and I certainly would never judge anyone openly, but I do feel sad when I see a baby being bottlefed, it is just not normal in my eyes.

I wonder alot about the experiences of women who were born in the war years and the knock on effect that has for us as a society as a whole. Were their mothers suffering postnatal depression? Were they bottlefed through necessity? Why was the nuturing link broken so severely? I don't think we can just blame the NHS solely. It must have been very hard for those women indeed.

My aunt is 55 (ididnt tell you that) and very clued up and extremley high up in the midwifery game. So lack of information was not an issue, my mum didnt breast feed, she couldnt, but another of my aunts did, until they were all 3/4 years so was not an issue that was alien to me, also I have friends who do and have, so sorry no conditioning there, just will have to get used to the fact that not all mothers want to bf, I have no other reason other than that.

Also I would like to add that whilst in hospital with my dd, I saw some really tearful mums who were breaking their hearts trying to bf, and must say the midwifes were bloody useless, infact some were rude. But what struck me was whilst I was enjoying my dd and holding and cooing and all the rest these poor mums were knackered, and feeling miserable, whilst trying to comfort a screaming newborn.

I thought at the time and still do now that I had a better time of it those few days regards bonding, thsn those mothers did. So maybe there is an about turn there regarding ff v bf for bonding!!

I agree, Colacubes - I don't think that it is impossible for ff mums to bond just as well with their babes as bf mums while feeding. They just need to be slightly more conscious of it, e.g. having skin-to-skin, holding them tight while feeding etc etc.

But I don't think it is all about bonding ... There is also the (surely undisputed?) fact that bm is the best source of nutrition for babies.

But asid

Not really colacubes - just highlights how shit the bf support is and why so many mums give up
At least those who have said they feel sad when seeing a baby with a bottle are being honest. OK - it's not pc but people feel how they feel - you can't change it!
I feel sad that they may not have had support, or sad that they wanted to and couldn't and sometimes hopeful baby is out with an aunt or something and it's ebm in there!

Poobah - I am not asking moondog to be euphemistic or dishonest. If she thinks it really is 'awful' to see a newborn with a bottle, then I am asking her to be quiet about it.

Babies in the war years were overwhelmingly likely to be breastfed. However, the length of time they breastfed was shortening by that time. The wide availability of dried milk (ask people who were mothers up to about 1960 about 'National Dried Milk') and the widespread direct advertising to consumers of baby foods of all types (including baby rice, in the form of products like Farlene or Farex, which were added to bottles from sometimes a few days old), and the routine scheduling of feeds in maternity hospitals all combined to make breastfeeding less 'trustworthy'.

Colacubes, I understand about you not having an instinct or an urge...what I don't understand is why your reading about the health impact of feeding methods did not persuade you that having the urge was optional You must have found the reading you did to be unconvincing...otherwise you would have given it a go, wouldn't you, given you didn't have an aversion?

Still curious, and appreciating your openness!

I didn't feel any particular urge to breastfeed. But I did because I see it as the default position, in the absence of urges as it were.

Typical moondog - make an outrageous, judgemental, patronising statement and then bugger off while everyone else argues about it.

as an aside (and trivia): Luciano Pavarotti and the soprano Mirella Freni were wetnursed by the same woman, at the same time. Both their mums worked together in a cigarette factory.

It makes me wonder if some babies in the UK during WW2 were also wetnursed.

My Dad was wetnursed until he was 5. He was born in 1933.

aha, Pavarotti and Freni were born in 35.

I'm glad that my parents were born in the generation pre farex! Formula Feeding is an alien concept in my family.

id have said it too. not to the mother, but you didnt either.

yes yes i agree the health issues being beneficial, But my feelings are this, formulas are a great feeding method and is not a harmful alternative, just an alternative.

I really can not find words to explain it better than it was purely a choice, and not a bad one or a misguided one, just plain and simplely a choice.

And for the record, those of us who ff through choice, notlack of milk etc, are not weirdos with aversions toward breasts, or children near our breasts. in all honestety bf was not for me, didnt cross my mind, i read about it asked about it, was told about it, and preached at at antenatal, but still was not converted or conditioned, was not an instinct I had,

I love my children, felt great love from the outset, looked at them and knew, "i know you where you been all this time" they were mine and i was theirs and bonding well that was done everyday of pregnancy, and with every bottle, bath, cuddle, bounce, walk, smile, everytime I look at those children, I know how much I love them, and they know I would do anything for them, now thats not a bad advertisement for bottle feeding.

Italy and UK are not the same Wet nursing was very uncommon in the UK after Victorian times, and it was not even common then outside the aristocracy (Winston Churchill had a wet nurse, IIRC, and he must have been born in the 1870s. Queen Victoria's children were wet nursed. But unlike the UK, the middle classes in France - and possibly Italy, for all I know - routinely used wet nurses, and sent their children away to be nursed...qv Emma Bovary)

I am a bit of an anorak about these things

Did you feel then that your default position was ff then colacubes? In that you weren't "converted" to the idea of bf by the information you gathered?

Not having a pop or anything. I just find it interesting, particularly in the context of arguments over 'normalising' breastfeeding.

Formula feeding does increase the risk of diabetes, obesity, jaw development and bottlefed babies are more likely to be admitted to hospital...I could go on and there are probably better people to do it than me.

I think it is misleading to say that just because your children haven't had any problems (as yet) that you think bottlefeeding is a great advertisment.

my dads gf's 2 girls were prem and she found herself unable to bf... she said once to me that another woman bf'd at least one of them and she was grateful for it.

cola, thanks....but while not arguing at all with your decision and your right to make a choice that felt comfortable for you, it can't have been a 'fully informed' one, or you would not say now that formula feeding is just an alternative and not harmful. See threads on mumsnet on risks of formula.

No

I always think that even if I don't say it aloud. Although I would say it to my mum.

I try not to judge mums and know from the word go of pregnancy you have many things to feel guilty about.

I believe breast feeding is best for baby but only if it makes the mum happy.

Happy mum = happy baby.

I have many friends who didnt and I respect their choices, they are all great mums and their children eat much better than mine.

oh I am anoraky about this sort of thing too TT, which is why it got me wondering about what it must have been like for babies here at that time. Years ago i had a British boss whose mother worked in the ammunition factories in the war and he mentioned that his mum took her baby (babies?) to work! Imagine the health and safety implications but it may have probably meant that they were bf there?

i think this is for another thread, don't you.?

Colacubes I feel exactly the way you do.
My baby is due in a few weeks and I just don't want to bf. I don't have any weird hang ups about boobs, I just think ff is a perfectly good alternative that I've seen work for many loving, happy mums (and healthy, well rounded kids) and it will suit my life more.
I just don't see what all the fuss is about. If you want to bf do it, if you want to ff do it. Surely it's that simple. It's taken me a while to realise that - because so many people do make you feel like a freak for wanting to ff rather than turning to it as a last resort when bf didn't work.
I just wanted to say that it's very refreshing to read your posts. And nice to see such a balanced view of ff.
And for those who feel sorry for us women who want to ff please don't - we certainly don't feel sorry for ourselves or our children.

no, its not a perfectly good alternative, its a substandard alternative. if you want to do it, do, but it isnt as good as bfing, not for baby, not for you.

congrats tho, hope you and your lo are happy and healthy.

This definately for another thread, but I don't agree that wetnursing wasn't used in the UK as I know of two people that were wetnursed but for free not paid and my dad was certainly not aristocracy. It would have been too expensive and too far to the shops to get formula. I think there just isn't the documentary evidence to support it

youre not a freak, just ill-informed.
there are health risks in ff which are easil;y avoided by bfing. its your decision to do what you want, but you should go into it with your eyes open. ff is nowhere near as good for your baby as bf. fact.