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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

I’m so angry with myself

94 replies

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 19:10

Just a bit of a rant.

When I had DS, feeding was a complete fiasco and I don’t think he ever managed a successful breastfeed. It was really upsetting and I spent a fortune trying to
‘fix’ it.

With this baby I decided I would try to breastfeed but just not get upset if I couldn’t. Only that isn’t what’s happened, mostly because unlike DS she can and will breastfeed but not very effectively and again I’ve fallen into the same stupid trap of paying a small fortune to people to help only it just doesn’t. And I still have a baby who hates breastfeeding.

I just feel like such a failure.

OP posts:

PumpkinSoup21 · 30/07/2023 21:02

It sounds like latch is the problem? There are lots of things you can try if you want to. I wish I could just pick up the phone to you as I was once a breastfeeding peer supporter! (after my own really tough feeding experience)

Is her head free to move? So hand or pillow at the top of her back, supporting the neck but not holding her head.
Have you tried brushing her nose gently with your nipple going upwards?
When her head is tipped back slightly and her mouth wide open then you use your hand on her back to draw her in really close.
Could you try again without the shields and see if you could get someone to look at the latch?

I know (really I do) that it’s really hard. Advice offered just in case you want to keep trying not to suggest that you should.

Jeezypeepers · 30/07/2023 21:03

My son only fed with shields for months and months and was a similarly ragey baby who hated breastfeeding. How we cracked it was by giving him a bit of expressed milk in a bottle first so he wasn’t starving; having him all swaddled up so he couldn’t rage throw his arms/himself around and then quickly swap out the bottle for my shielded nipple; in the rugby ball hold. Managed to lose the shields about 3 or 4 months old and move to different positions; but this was the only way to do it for a while. It’s shit and crushingly, drudgingly miserable when they just hate it, it’s not your fault. Kids are just dickheads

JassyRadlett · 30/07/2023 21:06

Huge sympathies. I remember watching those videos of happily, gently latching babies and wanting to weep as it was so different from my experience.

DS1 had head bruising from birth plus silent reflux and I had to experiment with all kinds of mad feeding positions to find one that wouldn't cause him pain. Combined with the fact that he just wouldn't/couldn't latch on in the way so many babies do - I realised a lot later that my nipples stay flat even when I'm breastfeeding compared to a lot of women.

I found with him I almost had to squeeze the boob around my nipple flat and shove it deep into his mouth to get him to latch - not the most elegant or gentle but no lactation consultants ever gave me this brutal piece of advice, I got it from an older friend. It was the only way he was able to latch and I felt ridiculous and brutal doing it but the nipple really does need to go that far down their mouths/throat and he just couldn't take it in far enough. The combo of his pain/disinclination and my relatively flat nipples didn't give us a chance of the video-perfect 'nipple to the nose' latch.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do; I totally get the emotions tied up with the lack of choice here. Hugs and good luck.

Echobelly · 30/07/2023 21:07

I wish it was made clearer before mums have babies that breastfeeding is hard. Or certainly it is a lot of the time - there are some people for whom it just works out easily; I could not make it work at all with my first at all, I did after 3 really difficult weeks with my second.

Please remember no one can be as hard on you about not bfing as yourself. If anyone looks at you askance for bottle-feeding a young baby, they are not a person whose opinion you need to care about, they are judgemental arsehole (NB, never had anyone do that when feeding my oldest) and can fuck off, and I say that from the heart. It really upsets me when I see mums beating themselves up over this, please try to move past it and enjoy time with your baby.

When it didn't work out with my oldest and we switched to bottle, she was so much more satisfied and I felt so much more able to bond with her because we weren't struggling with breastfeeding anymore, so I felt happy it was the right choice. Easy for me to say, I know, but I just want to say there's no rule saying that 'good mums' have to apologise to the world or their baby for that matter, when bfing doesn't happen.

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:07

@PumpkinSoup21 thanks … it’s so hard to get her into a good position. She’s very small and she’s also very strong. Her arms are everywhere and she can’t latch without shields but she knocks the shields off waving her arms around and then gets upset. When she is latched on successfully she pulls off then gets upset. It’s so stressful because she wants to feed for ages which isn’t a problem but it’s not like I can just sit back and enjoy the baby cuddles as she’s constantly unsettled and pulling off and on and getting frustrated. She’s just had a load of formula and is content

OP posts:

Friendshipissue · 30/07/2023 21:08

You aren't shit at breastfeeding, OP. After my experience with DS I concluded some babies simply can't. I tried incredibly hard with support groups, consultants, midwives etc but nothing worked. His latch was awful and I applied the unhelpful advice of "oh simply unlatch and put him back on if it's painful". I did that so many times that in the end I developed tendonitis on my wrists and practically took care of a small baby with wrist injuries for at least 6 months.
The narrative played so bad to my poor hormone riddled postpartum brain I didn't even notice I was physically damaging myself by so frantically trying to breastfeed. Thankfully my mom whispered some sense into me and told me to get a good pump if I really wanted him to give some breast milk and give him as much as you can with formula and stop striving for a "perfection" someone else wrote for us.

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:09

@Echobelly i know it’s hard - I explain what I went through with DS in my OP. I’m a bit emotional so please don’t take this the wrong way but I really don’t know why you assume that I don’t think it’s hard. But there is a big difference between hard - sore nipples and time consuming and so on - and impossible, baby just not feeding.

And I don’t care what others think, I never have re feeding. This is for me and my baby, no one else.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 30/07/2023 21:10

Her arms are everywhere

have you tried swaddling her?

I breastfed all 3 of mine. They were all shit at it at the start! It certainly isn't easy in the beginning despite being "natural".

it's bloody hard!

SoupDragon · 30/07/2023 21:10

Your baby will be fine however you feed her though.

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:13

Sometimes babies just need to grow. My first daughter couldn't latch at all for about seven or eight weeks and then couldn't feed well enough till closer to 12 weeks. Her mouth was just teeny and she couldn't open it very wide. I pumped 8-10 times a day and bottle fed her with EBM. Once she was able to breastfeed we then fed for over a year.

My second DD latched on in the operating theatre!

Have you had proper face to face and hands-on support with a lactation consultant?

Echobelly · 30/07/2023 21:14

I get that @Summermeadowflowers - sorry, didn't mean to express that you didn't know it, but it general I wish they would be clearer that it not working out is not uncommon so mums didn't feel like they are outliers when it happens.

10oclock · 30/07/2023 21:14

Had a similar experience and told myself I wouldn’t get upset if BF didn’t work out for my second however there I was feeling totally rubbish about it.
I got ALL the help possible from professionals but quite frankly, no one actually did help and repeatedly you’re told nose to nipple, there is no magical advice or solution that anyone can offer. It’s draining, do what’s best for you as well as baby, second time the feelings of upset and guilt of giving up on BF did subside quicker.

loveledbury · 30/07/2023 21:24

Hi, I have a three month old (have sort of forgotten newborn phase so please forgive me if this is not helpful), but sometimes I had success with dangle feeding. Oh all fours and lying baby down and putting nipple straight in their mouth.
I feed now across the body and very often have to manipulate my boob with my spare hand to get milk out quicker.
So just wondering whether manipulating your breast at the same time or dangle feeding might be worth a try.
Wishing you all the best, it's certainly not easy.

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:30

She hates being swaddled unfortunately - she does have a love to dream swaddle but she can still move her arms a bit in that!

The kellymom website does say most babies can latch between 4-6 weeks but what do you do for the remaining two to four weeks? Just keep expressing?

OP posts:

Oldermumofone · 30/07/2023 21:32

I felt like you - really wanted to do it but we just couldn’t - I think my nipples just flattened somehow and she couldn’t latch on. We ended up back in hospital as she lost too much weight and she took an expressed bottle and then pursed her lips when I tried to feed her. I decided at that point that I’d go with her choice and formula fed. I look back sometimes and wish I’d kept going and nighttimes were definitely harder having to get up to make bottles but I know that actually every piece of energy had been taken from me and that it was really the right thing for us at the time. However know other people who battled with it and got there so what is right for one person isn’t for another. Good luck and hope that if you decide to stick with it things improve soon.

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:36

In terms of latch, I couldn't get on with all the nose to nipple stuff, but what worked well with DD2 when she was tiny was kind of squeezing my boob into like a hamburger shape so she could get a deep mouthful.

Most breastfeeding issues are resolved or at the least diminishing a lot by 4-6 weeks, as that seems to be when a baby's mouth has grown enough and also gained some neck strength to help with latching. If you do really want to breastfeed I'd recommend pumping to keep your supply going and keep trying her on the breast at least once a day. I remember one day DD1 just latched on and I couldn't believe it after two months of never latching! But getting a lactation consultant to come to the house would be great if you can afford it. Mine was lovely and I used her again with DD2 just cos I needed that confidence boost I think!

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:38

I’ve had a lactation consultant- I wish I hadn’t in a way: as you rightly say it isn’t cheap and it just feels like such a waste of money. Having said that it is encouraging that you say yours latched on after two months. I just feel so fed up of spending my life attached to a breast pump and it feels so pointless. This evening she’s been insatiable and there’s no way I can keep up with her needs. I also feel awful DS has been practically ignored while I try to pump milk.

OP posts:

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:41

Yes, I'm not sure how I would have managed with another child in the mix. I was fortunate that DD2 latched well, although I did have to pump exclusively with her for the first two or three weeks due to some nipple damage sustained in the first few days, but my husband was off work for a month so it wasn't too much of an issue as he was able to look after DD1. Annoyingly overnight is when milk supply tends to be at its highest in terms of pumping yield!

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:42

And don't feel bad about the formula. I wish I'd stressed less about it. Once we got to breast fully, we were able to ditch the formula, but it served an important purpose when we were trying to figure it out, so just give her what she needs for now. Pace feeding with bottle is helpful as it stops them getting too used to the much faster flow from bottles. We used super slow teats too.

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:43

I know - I need to set alarms! I don’t mind that but it is a little exhausting. I expressed for DS but never got much. I get a fair bit more this time but even so struggling to keep up with her now. I suppose it’s good she’s found her appetite!

OP posts:

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:43

Thanks @Hugasauras - which bottles/teats did you use?

OP posts:

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:48

We used Minbie teats with DD1, the XS ones. Annoyingly DD2 hated them! So we used Tommee Tippee Closer to Nature ones with her for the first couple of weeks until we stopped using bottles.

Original poster

Summermeadowflowers · 30/07/2023 21:49

Thank you. DD is 2 weeks on Tuesday which I know us still very early days. I actually thought I’d cracked the breastfeeding Thursday but then my c section wound got infected and I ended up solely expressing for a couple of days and now she is very difficult at the breast.

OP posts:

PumpkinSoup21 · 30/07/2023 21:53

It is super early days - I know it doesn’t feel like it but you’re doing amazing!

With her coming off after latching, could it be your flow is a bit fast for her? Have you tried feeding in a slightly laid back position to use gravity to slow things down?

When you say she won’t latch without shields what exactly happens without them? What is she doing at the breast?

Hugasauras · 30/07/2023 21:55

Oh I also found DD2 got really impatient when milk wasn't instantly there, I guess cos of having some bottles she then expected the same from breast. It helped to hand express till letdown and then try to latch her so there was milk flowing right away. After a couple of days, she started persevering a bit more and I didn't have to do it

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