Teaching toddler breastfeeding etiquette

[ohyeahiwaittablestoo]

Not sure if I've used the right phrase there. My 17mo is still breastfeeding. We had been down to morning and bedtime and then 1 or 2 day feeds depending if I'm at work or not. He has managed without me for over 24hrs on a few occasions and is a chunky little man so doesn't need it as a food source as such.

This week he has been teething pretty hard and has been asking for more feeds, a total of 7 yesterday. I don't mind if it makes him feel better but the constantly pulling at my top is starting to get annoying. It's got to the point that anytime he sits on my knee he starts yanking at my top or grabbing my nipple through the fabric. Can/should I be teaching him not to do this? Is it mean to say he can only have the comfort of a feed when I say so? Even his sister was getting annoyed at how often he was feeding yesterday and saying "mummy I think he's had enough". Reminded her that she used to love her dummy when she was feeling sad.

I don't even know what I'm trying to ask here. I don't want to stop, he still likes it, I still like it, except when he's the one calling the shots apparently!

yeah its definitely for the mums benefit! I mean who doesn't want to be woken every 2 hours!

I'm guessing the toddler stays generally asleep, but 'wakes' enough to suckle. both my DC, 2.8 yo and 10 weeks 'sleep through' - as in they don't properly wake at night, but they do still suckle.

She said it was for her benefit as well.

Probably should stop when it starts to be annoying, and when they're no longer doing it for nutrition but for comfort.

@Wouldloveanother You said you doubt any sleep professional would agree with a 2YO waking and I have to agree to disagree. I'm a trained sleep professional and studies show that only after 24months does regular night waking (needing attention) becomes much less common. And the child isn't sleep deprived, she stirs between sleep cycles and just like we might roll over, fluff our pillow or sip some water - she feeds back to sleep. It's totally normal and natural. And also completely the business of the mother and child

I’m having the same with mine. Teething and a holiday has really ramped up the feeding, grabbing and signing for milk. I’ve fed all mine until they were over two. Can’t believe the judgement on here

OP, Emma Pickett IBCLC on Instagram is super useful for feeding older babies, setting boundaries, etc. I'm sure there'd be some tips on her page. she also sometimes runs 'weaning' groups via zoom. weaning as in weaning completely or setting boundaries.

I dont have anything to add on top of what has already been said. but I have been there with my eldest and found that he grew out of it as his speech improved. he now comes to me and says "noo noo. please" and gets out the pillow I lie on all ready. 🥺 at the time I'd correct his pulling or tugging request, like show or tell him a nice way to ask.

No, I said I doubt they would find waking every 2 hours, every night, healthy. Given the average number of wake ups is 1, then 5-6 seems very extreme. I never said waking at night isn’t healthy - my 3 year old still does it now and then.

I said I love it, because I do. It’s the most natural thing in the world - the emotional connection is like nothing else.

And of course that’s not even mentioning the physical health benefits to both mum and baby alongside the mental health benefits.

There is no need to stop when we both love it and benefit from it equally. As soon as she is ready to wean, she can wean.

Natural weaning age is 2-7, though of course the vast majority of those are nearer 2, but I will feed her for as long as she wishes me to.

@Wouldloveanother there's an interesting study into sleep amongst breastfed cosleeping children, and at 2 years their sleep is different from the cultural "norm". They don't sleep long stretches and Instead wake to feed regularly. The authors actually put the acceptance of the norm of children sleeping long stretches at this age is down to early weaning and separated sleep practices. In other words it's possible that this style of waking is actually the physiological norm at 2 years old.

It's actually a great opportunity to help them learn about consent. Not easy though. I fed my eldest till 5 and my youngest is 3.5 and still very keen on milk from mummy.
I tend to say things like "I can only feed you if I'm comfortable. Biting me is not comfortable and means I have to stop our milk time." And "your milk comes out of my boobs, if you can be gentle then I can make more, but if you can't then I can't"
It's a journey.
Given that your wee one is clearly not themselves at the moment, I'd ride it out with as much encouragement to be gentle and/or polite as possible for now and then work on longer term behaviour once they're back to normal.

Can I see it?

@Hodgepodge211 🥰

OP, I taught my daughter to ask for boobie, so when she wants it she’ll come up and say “boobie”. She doesn’t pull at my clothes.

Equally you could teach your son to sign - they pick those up very quickly. My daughter still uses loads of signs from before she could talk.

@Wouldloveanother Elias MF, Nicolson NA, Bora C, Johnston J.
Sleep/wake patterns of breast-fed infants in the first 2 years of life.

@Wouldloveanother that link does not work! God knows what happened but you can Google it I'm sure 🙂

What’s it called?

My main reason for going to baby sign was to avoid what I have seen from so many non talking grabby toddlers...not just breastfeeding ones but basically to stop them having to just grab and shout. My little one will sit on my lap reading a book etc then suddenly frantically sign for milk like it's been days and no top pulling at all.

I intend to let mine self wean up to age three I think. We're down to about four to eight feeds a day. Always more if I have been out or she's not feeling well. I absolutely love it!

Oh, found it. It’s just a survey of 30 kids which concluded they were more prone to night waking. Didn’t say how often though, etc, quite brief.

Thank you, this is really helpful. Poor wee man, he cries if I say no just now and when his head is back, mouth open crying and I see all those new teeth poking through and I think how on earth could I deny him something that will make him feel better? Really interesting re consent. He has a few words (dog and woof mainly) but he understands so much, hopefully he'll grasp the concept of asking quickly.

@Wouldloveanother your understanding of research methods seems pretty limited. You say that “the average number of night wakings at this age is 1” and therefore conclude that it is not “normal or healthy” for a child to wake more frequently than this.

have you considered that the “average” child’s sleep is actually the reflection of several specific cultural practices? Or at least not something that is naturally occurring. Remember that breastmilk is the natural norm for human babies, not cows milk. If we did not have easy access to cows milk (as babies in many developing countries do not) then most babies would be breastfed until age 2+. At the moment if babies are weaned earlier from the breast (or never breastfed at all) they need to be supplemented with other milk products. Breastfed babies and toddlers wake frequently to feed. The fact that we have such low breastfeeding rates in this country is also therefore probably linked to average sleep patterns. Formula takes longer to digest and leaves babies fuller thus enabling them to sleep longer. This is one of the reasons that formula feeding is associated with higher rates of SIDS.

breastfeeding mothers also tend to cosleep with their children more frequently than non-breastfeeding mothers. Babies who cosleep often briefly wake and then resettle once latched on.

Remember also that in our society there is a lot of pressure on mums to sleep train quite young babies, often before age 1, if they are “sleeping poorly”.

therefore the fact that the average 2 year old in the UK only wakes once per night is probably linked to the fact that a) less than 0.5% of children this age are still breastfed and b) many parents have already sleep trained their children by this age. It is not evidence that it is “not normal” to wake more often than this, only evidence that it is “not the norm” and is arguably due to cultural practices (sleep training and not breastfeeding) rather than a reflection of “normal” child sleep.

@tiredandstripey i understand everything you said, and I have zero issues with toddlers being breastfed and see it’s totally normal. I just disagree that a 2 year old in the same waking habits as a newborn is ‘healthy’. One or two wakes a night, yeah I can see how that’s normal for a lot of them. But every 2 hours is extreme, it’s the same as a 6 week old.

It’s like saying “the average BMI of everyone I know is 35, therefore this shows that a BMI of 23 is too low”. No it doesn’t. It just shows that you have surveyed a group of people who are fairly homogenous and that the person scoring 23 is an outlier from that group. It doesn’t mean 35 is optimal.

@beachcitygirl yes there are lots of way to comfort a very young toddler, but breastfeeding provides every comfort in one package; calming physical contact, pain relief, emotional reassurance, nourishment etc.

Why not do it if it works? It's not like the child will still be breastfeeding at 17.

@Wouldloveanother can you not see though how your perception of “normal” and “extreme” may have been influenced by the average parenting practises in this country? i.e. limited breastfeeding, separate sleeping, sleep training?

But every 2 hours is extreme, it’s the same as a 6 week old.

^ this response indicates you understood nothing of the PPs detailed explanation of population level stats and the changes from true normal to formula-industry created norms.

But even if you look at threads of women bfing/co-sleeping with 2 year olds on here, they don’t wake every 2 hours at night. It seems extreme even when compared to other kids doing the same thing.