"failing to thrive" - please help!

[Caz10]

DD is between 5-6wks just now and put on 1lb in the first 3wks. (5lbs 15 at birth to 6lbs 15 at 3wks).

Now at 5wks + 4 she has dropped to 6lbs 11oz.

HV told me she was failing to thrive, said i HAD to top up with formula and basically scared the life out of me.

I have been working with a bfc to improve my latch as i know it has not been great - it is improving.

dd is alert, lots of wet nappies, 2-3 dirty nappies a day and has gone up a centile in length. they did her 6wk check this week for some reason and all was fine. surely she is not failing to thrive?

boxes of formula in the kitchen, not given yet, lots of tears from me. have to get her weighed again tomorrow and feel like i will be in trouble for not topping up.

i know all the things to try to get supply up, but HV has put such a sense of urgency round this that i feel i have to do something quickly.

i think my most urgent concern is, will i harm dd by NOT topping up for a few days while i think this through?

i am aware there are lots of similar threads to this, so off to have a look. thanks

oh caz that sounds fab. she is feeding well and gaining weight- just remember that.
I found it horendously difficult in the first few weeks but it DOES get better, and once it settles down you'll enjoy it so much.
the cluster feeding is a real killer isn't it? but again, it won't be forever and yes it's boosting your supply which is fab.
don't worry about not feeling full. there is milk there and she is getting it

Thank you mfg, i will have a look at that while she has her next feed!

I know the cluster feeding won't be forever but I am really hating it. It's ok when DH is here cos he can take her for a minute or two while I go to the loo or whatever, and obviously he cooks tea (and cuts it up so I can eat one handed, bless!). But when he is on nights I normally end up starving, or wolfing something down in 2 seconds feeling awful as she screams for food. She literally doesn't stop the whole time. I take her off whenever she starts to doze/nibble but then she has a 30 second break before wailing to get put back on.

She has started to twist really badly when feeding on one side so it is agony again.

I know this is about her health and not about me, but I am stressed, tired, in pain, slightly bored tbh, and just generally fed up with it. Everyone says it gets better, but I think I thought it would be better by now. Mentally the fact that she is now 2 months is hard - when it was like this when she was 5wks or whatever I could say it's ok it's early days, but in my head I think i thought it might be better by now.

Sorry that was such a whinge!

Cluster feeding is more tolerable when you accept that it is happening, and you avoid the temptation to watch for the baby appearing to drop off to sleep

Don't be misled by the apparent fullness/emptiness of the breast - you will be 'emptier' when your breasts feel soft but not 'empty' .

Hang on in there

caz, i remember having a dreadful time around 8 wks with dd what seemed like permananetly attached. dh was also working away from home during the week and we have no rellies nearby. I had never been so lonely before. Indeed, I felt like I was cracking up and one night I loaded up dd in the car and drove 200 miles to a friend who had successfully bf her ds. She cooked for me and let me feed feed feed and told me it was all normal. And it was. It just kept getting better from there as I then accepted it was normal. I think at 10 wks a friend who hadn't seen my dd since she was 2 wks old, looked at her and brought me to my senses, that yes, dd was a content and thriving baby. I just couldn't see it for myself. I guess this story is really saying that somedays we can't see the woods for the trees and it takes someone else looking in to reassure us that all is fine. The experience of feeling taht i sucessfully bf my daughter for longer than I was hoping for intially has been such a great boost to my self esteem. I just couldn't see that I could do it from where i was standing at 8 wks, even 10 wks. You. are. doing. an. excellent. job. Despite how low you may be feeling sometimes.

even now, recalling this experience, which i have never put on paper is making me teary. I remember driving past a certain location on the M1 one night with dh, six months later, and crying all over again because it brought back how desperate and lonely I felt that night. Hang in there girl.

I would agree with the others caz that once you've accepted that that is how it is then it definitely becomes easier.
8 weeks is also the peak time for colic (with evenings tending to be worst), but it really really ought to get better from now on in.
Just try and relax and go with it.
I know it's hard, I've been there, I've been the one posting on the net about what an awful mum I was because I wished I hadn't had ds2 one day when he just wanted to feed and feed and was generally unhappy all day.

He is now 3 months (so really not that much more than your dd) and he is so much happier. nearly everyone comments on how much nicer he is now lol

Hang on in there, think of this as the "worst" it can get (in terms of lack of sleep, lack of time, amount of screaming/feeding) and remember it can only improve from here

Congrats on sticking it out! You're doing great! Just do remind yourself that this won't go on forever; in a few months time you'll be stuffing his face with mashed potato. Not that it isn't nice (and beneficial) to carry on breastfeeding, but it won't be the same never-ending task, just a quick comfort slurp. The hardest work is now, as Fingerwoman says, it can only get better.

thanks all. i am struggling so much with the feeding, mentally more than anything else i think. never realised how much of an endurance test it was going to be and i feel like total crap about it. people kept saying things get better at 6 weeks but i think the last few weeks have been worse than the start was. how long will this cluster feeding period typically last does anyone know? my feeds during the day are more or less pain free now which is great but i'm in agony at night, plus really not coping mentally - the closer it gets to 5/6pm i start to dread it, and by the time it gets to 9pm-ish knowing i'm only half way through just depresses me.

LUCKILY she sleeps well afterwards and is not colicky, so i know things could be much worse.

awww caz perhaps the key is finding a way of getting through it so that you don't dread it. accepting that it'll be like this for a while, but finding ways of making it easier on yourself?
how is the actual feeding itself going? is it still painful or has that settled down now?

I will admit that ds is 3 months and he still cluster feeds a bit in the evenings, though not as bad as he was. But because we have both got so much better at breastfeeding it's actually quite pleasurable to sit with him and feed him while I watch tv or surf the net

I think having targets in your mind make it worse as well. people often say that 6 weeks is a turning point, and when that comes and goes then you do feel crap, becayse you no longer see an end in sight.
but it WILL get better. Just think, you made that baby- your body made her what she is, how amazing is that?
and what's even more amazing is that your body can produce everything she needs to keep growing. -it's really incredible, and a good incentive to keep at it

i think that is part of my struggle fingerwoman, because dd is so small and her weight has been questioned so much i feel like i am NOT producing everything she needs.

hardly any pain at allduring day yipee! but in the evening it is a nightmare, our latch is terrible and i am having to break her off every 2 mins to try to correct it, my nipples are a right old state. paranoid about getting it right as her weight loss has been attributed to poor latch and therefore poor feeds.

i just feel if i was using formula i'd be happier, pain free and she'd be healthier - but i know this is best for her. and by healthier of course you can read bigger!

i appreciate your support so much.

this thread reminds me so much of dd's first few weeks. not going to type lots but just want to tell you you're doing a wonderful thing by bfing and ff does not always lead to weight gain. dd still lost weight on ff for weeks after I'd been bullied into stopping bf by my HV and GP. she also had eczema (sp) and silent reflux and when we moved areas our new paediatrician (sp) said the best thing would have been to carry on bf

she dropped from 50th to 0.4th (and was 91st for length at that point!) but is now back above the 9th (I don't get her weighed now though as the pressure of keeping her on her centile was actually making me ill)

good luck xx

I have quickly read through this so sory if I repeat anything.

I had Callum at 33+5 weeks weighing 4lb 8oz 19 weeks ago. He left SCBU after 10 days weighing 4lb 5oz. For 2 weeks afterwards he didn't gain weigh. We had to have a feeding tube put down his nose and were topping up with EBM after each feed. He gained weight, tube was removed, he didn't gain weight, tube put back down.
It went on like this for about 4 weeks and finally the SCBU nurse decided to leave the tube in, it was in for about 6 weeks. We were refered to the hospital where they said that he had severe FFT and we HAD to top up with formula. I refused and carried on as I was. Callum was about 5lb 8oz at that point.. he was born on the 50th percentile and had dropped off the chart. One day I had him weighed and despite my expressing and topping up he had only gained 2oz in a week. I broke down at that point and couldn't do it anymore, so we decided to do 2 topups a day with the formula, and 1 with EBM. As a result he did gain weight and is still having 1 topup (7oz he is a guzzer) in the evening and now weighes 10lb 12oz at 19 weeks.
We are now about to drop the formula topup and see what happens. But if he doesn't gain, then we will go back to the formula.
I had to do this for his health and my sanity.
I fought so hard to bf and even though I am topping him up, I am still Bf him most of the time. It would have been so easy to just stop breastfeeding, but I wanted to do what was best for him (which in my mind was BF) but I know now that the topping up was also best for him.

I hope that you are ok and keep at it, the corner will turn soon for you, I am sure.

caz remember that some babies are just small!
it might be worth searching for, or starting, a slow weight gain thread, and getting some support from others who have had babies who have stayed on low centiles (regardless of what they were born on)
how much is she gaining each week? on average?

I have just re-read your first post and wanted to say some stuff about it.
when you look at her overall weight gain, you should be using her LOWEST point after birth, not her birth weight. this can be raised by various things (inc epidurals I believe, did you have one?)

Has she always been weighed on the same scales, naked?
bear in mind that in a small baby weighing before and after a big poo/wee can make a big difference. so it's possible that she was weighed just after a feed one day, and then after emptying her bowels the next... that can be very misleading.

It also isn't helpful for them to be weighing her too often, for precisely those reasons.

this bit really sticks out for me too
"dd is alert, lots of wet nappies, 2-3 dirty nappies a day and has gone up a centile in length. they did her 6wk check this week for some reason and all was fine. surely she is not failing to thrive?"
YOU know her best. YOU know how much she is feeding, how she is in herself and how you think she is getting on. I think that's really important, and sadly overlooked by many HPs
It's also interesting that you say she had jumped a centile in length. There is a lady on another forum I go to who is having v.similar probs to you whose little boy has also shot up in length ,but seeming to be slow gaining. I think a bfc on there had mentioned that the energy expended on all that growing may account for some of the slow weight gain.

thanks everyone. entropy that is interesting, did they say why they thought your dd was dropping weight then? they've just blamed it on my bf so far but i always worry there is some underlying problem

sgc thank you for sharing your story, i've been lurking on various slow weight gain threads and had read about your ds before...i'm so impressed that you are keeping up the bf, and i admire your common sense when it comes to the use of formula. i have to keep reminding myself that using it is not a failure, or harmful to dd (although i know some people would say it is...bf advisors have been v useful, but they have made me feel slightly ashamed of topping up).

fingerwoman you are spot on re the weighing, it has been too frequent in my opinion, and at one point was very inconsistent with regard to clothing etc - we have that sorted now, HV not happy at having it pointed out, but tough!

She is indeed very long - weight wise she has dropped from between the 9th and the 2nd to 0.4th (although now gaining along the 0.4th) but in length she has jumped from the 2nd, to the 9th, and is now almost on the 25th! So she is definitely growing she's just a skinny rake!

I have no other lo's and no experience around babies, so have nothing to compare her too, but everyone who meets her comments on how bright and alert she is.

I just wish I could relax and feed on demand without clock watching and latch watching all the time! some day hopefully...

Caz it is NOT a failure, its a compromise.. I am happy with my choice now (when we started giving him the formula, I couldn't even be in the room when he was having it) He is on High energy formula which we have to get from the doctors, because he had sereve FTT and I hate having to go and get it from the chemist, just carrying it to my car makes me sad, but I know he needs it. Don't punish yourself, she just needs a bit of a boost. Hopefully you will be able to get to the stage we are at now, and be about to drop the formula altogether..

thanks again. compromise is exactly the right word, and as you say i will be bf the rest of the time. my use of the formula has been very sporadic, and i think i might get on better if i plan it into just one feed, which i can then phase out. when do you give callum his?

Callum has his bottle of formula just before bed, after a breastfeed.

hiya caz, I just thought I would add this link for you. It's the person I mentioned who has been going through a similar thing.
yuou may find some more good advice on the thread (it's quite long)

thanks fingerwoman that was very interesting to read. i can't understand why so many women are getting scared and bullied into stopping bf when all the health authorities are meant to be promoting and supporting it. meant to say also dd's was a straightforward gas and air birth, no epidural, and as far as we know no birth trauma/neck/shoulder issues etc.

numbersix i'm trying to surrender to the cluster feeding - thank crunchie for the internet and sky plus!

dd was weighed today and has gained just 2.5oz - i was quite disapointed - BUT that keeps her on the centile line so HV was ok about it, and she has only had 2x 3oz formula feeds during this week, both at 1am-ish when i have been feeding since 5pm and am going spare! i figure that it won't have TOO much impact on my supply as it comes after about 7 hours of non-stop feeding.

trying to be positive, at least i know now she will happily take a bottle, and in an emergency dh or whoever else can give her a ff.

at 3 weeks when the pain was really bad i was tempted to give up, so at least i have made it to 2 months!

sorry, not v clear, that's been 2.5oz in a week

that's ok though caz, she is gaining, not losing, so don't worry. as I say, some babies are slow to gain- and someone has to be on the low centiles don't they? and she has shot up a LOT in length
You will look back on this in a few months and think "ahhh it wasn't so bad" lol
ds2 was horrendously colicky and I just couldn't cope with him at all. 2 months down the road I realise that although it was awful at the time, it was such a short period of his life overall. of course it doesn't seem like that when you're in the midst of it because you can't see the end and it seems like it'll go on forever- but it will end. dd will grow out of the cluster feeding and she will continue to gain weight, even if it's slow and you;ll wonder why you were ever worried

dd was going on nursing strikes pretty regularly so it wasn't surprising that she would lose weight. what we think it was, was an association between feeding and pain from silent reflux. To begin with she took to the bottle as she associated bf with pain but it didn't take long for her to refuse bottles too as the formula made the reflux, and therefore the pain, worse. As she was a poor feeder anyway, ff completely messed up my supply and dd got lazy and started to expect bottles to supplement bf (and as she was so skinny I felt I had to do anything to get the milk in) we finally gave up completely at 4 months as it didn't seem worth the constant expressing to keep supply up when she would ask for a bottle after a couple of mins of boob.

ironically she is now 18 months old and loves her bottle to bits and won't entertain the idea of milk from a cup if I had another baby (which I can't for lots of other reasons) I would get a sling that I could bf with, and bf all the time with no bottles ever. but its so much easier with hindsight isn't it....