"failing to thrive" - please help!

[Caz10]

DD is between 5-6wks just now and put on 1lb in the first 3wks. (5lbs 15 at birth to 6lbs 15 at 3wks).

Now at 5wks + 4 she has dropped to 6lbs 11oz.

HV told me she was failing to thrive, said i HAD to top up with formula and basically scared the life out of me.

I have been working with a bfc to improve my latch as i know it has not been great - it is improving.

dd is alert, lots of wet nappies, 2-3 dirty nappies a day and has gone up a centile in length. they did her 6wk check this week for some reason and all was fine. surely she is not failing to thrive?

boxes of formula in the kitchen, not given yet, lots of tears from me. have to get her weighed again tomorrow and feel like i will be in trouble for not topping up.

i know all the things to try to get supply up, but HV has put such a sense of urgency round this that i feel i have to do something quickly.

i think my most urgent concern is, will i harm dd by NOT topping up for a few days while i think this through?

i am aware there are lots of similar threads to this, so off to have a look. thanks

Your health visitor seems about as helpfull as mine, Waste of time take no bloody notice and ses GP if your worried. Dont think using formula is of much advise to be honest I think they could support you more than they are.

oh and even though its tempting not sure it is such a great idea to have your own scales. it sounds like she should be weighed less NOT more frequently, but just on proper, calibrated electronic scales, naked.

if you have the time and energy when this is all over and sorted maybe you could complain about HV!

Hi there Caz and DD,
Just finished my 12 hour shift but want to say Hello and still thinking of you. Hope you and your partner are managing to have some good time with her at present (cannot be easy for him seeing you hurt so much)

Take it easy and be kind to yourself, you are amazing. I hope that whatever you decide to do tomorrow goes as you wish it too - write down the questions you need answering - I always find this helps me in an emotional moment with people who think they have power over you (not all professionals - I am one after all!!) Someone said to me once, at a time when I was scared and vulnerable and had to approach a person in authority !!!! "just imagine them sitting on the loo with their pants around their ankles" - you know they seem much more lowlier then!!! It worked for me.

Another thought - is there anyone who you could take with you to see HV/GP who could support you and is not as emotionally involved, could fight your corner by asking the questions if you should not feel able to?

Anyway, take care and let us know if you feel able to talk XX

great post oneofeight x

Sorry, redadmiral, I missed the suggestion to be sure to ask for paeds at A&E....however, paeds are not universally available though via A&E, and I have come across some mighty odd stuff coming from A&E when parents I have spoken to have taken their babies there. No one can assume they would be able to see a senior paediatrician this way, and nor should they assume that any paediatrician would understand about bf.

I agree about scales at home being a really, seriously, bad idea. Test weighing - weighing before and after feeds - cannot tell you anything of any use whatsoever, truly

hi caz, how is it going today?
totally agree with mommalove it will pass x

Thanks all, and mommalove i am basking in your wafted thoughts...

feeling much better as DD was weighed today and has put on a whopping 8oz.

Now i know it's debateable as to whether or not she NEEDED to ...but it has made me breathe a sigh of relief for the time being and hospital is no longer being mentioned

I'm also unsure as to whether that is an unnatural amount for a wee baby to gain in such a short space of time - however she took all the food offered, didn't throw any up etc, and still remains bright and cheery between feeds. She is settling to sleep a bit better too, but again I'm not convinced that's good - is she just too stuffed full of food to do anything else?!

been advised that we can slow down the feeds...and seeing BFC to go over longer term plans, also to go over P&A again.

Am very very that my LO has formula inside of her...but it's been the bare minimum only when I couldn't express enough to keep up. And keep having to remind myself it's a means to an end - hopefully I can BF for longer if I get through this stage.

Can't thank you all enough.

Oh - thought you would also like to hear this piece of HV muppetry...

After telling me DD was "very unwell", and giving me "48hrs to turn it around" etc...Friday to Monday of NO sleep, stress, constant round of feeding, pumping, washing bottles etc etc (DH not here, perfect timing!) (He's been great, whoever asked!) they handed me a piece of paper today and said "try to not just think of the past 48 hrs when you fill this in".

By this point I can barely see straight - stared at said paper before realising it is their PND questionnaire!!

Was tempted to tick the answers that would get me sectioned just to see what they would do (sorry, not being flippant re PND) but in the end I told the truth and as I am still here and nothing was said after she'd "marked" it, I am presuming I am fine.

But..timing?!!

Fantastic news! So pleased for you.

Delighted to hear that things are going so well now. Sit back, relax and enjoy your gorgeous DD.

well done you!
hopefully you can relax and enjoy now
it gets better with each passing day

Caz - so pleased that things are easier and second all the last few posts. I def would def out that HV and find another to see you through your DD's childhood - ask around your friends - a good HV ( by good I mean, can give you up to date, evidence backed info in a non-judgemental way and allow you to make your own decisions then AND still continue to be non-judgemental if you choose to follow a different route)
Glad you are continuing to see the BFC.

Another horror story for all out there, a colleague of mine, a paed and nnu nurse has been supporting her sister in law in her BFing, mainly because of an evil M in Law (sorry in advance - I am one of those as well, but not evil I hope) and over the last few months has been asking me about various aspects of BFing, I saw her yesterday (not seen for 2-3 weeks) and she told me S in L has stopped BF and was initially expressing - to - wait for it - pacify her mother as she was constantly undermining her and had actually given baby a bottle without consent, so poor girl just gave in. Not the end people - at her next meet with the HV (enter left stage to boos - sorry all goodie HV's) he told her "why bother with all this hassle, you might as well just give formula and start now, a new beggining" so this poor lass THROUGH away all her EBM!!!!! At this time she was already being seen for PND - colleague is so worried about her. And you know as she was telling me I knew who the HV was - a male HV- who has recently completed a 3 day BF in house course, because there were concerns re his practice towards BFing. I am seeing the Trust BF co-ordinator tomorrow to tell her of this, dont suppose we will get poor mum to make a formal complaint so I don't know how far it can be taken. This guy has been around since 1990, I spent one awful day with him as a midwifery student. and

oneofeight, I share your at this.

I occasionally come across women who stop breastfeeding because of the overt sabotage of their mothers and mothers in law. The worst example was a mother who told me her own mother had said she would no longer visit or allow them to visit her as long as the baby was breastfed....can you believe it? Grandma was convinced the baby was starving (he wasn't, of course, and was actually doing very well). This poor mum was broken hearted, but with the support of her partner, she stuck to bf.

Poor support from healthcare professionals is almost never complained about

Caz - you're sounding stronger and more confident! Yay!

bloody hell oneof eight thats awful
complain - too right. i feel very strongly that dodgy professionals should be complained about...and got rid of or at least have some retraining.

But luvaduck what do you do when the retraining has no effect, as in this case - he had the 3 day intense baby friendly training that explores knowledge base and attitude.
Our profession is so unaccountable on 'soft' issues such as infant feeding - and I use 'soft' to illustrate the low level of importance placed on it. Now if it is a drug error, well you are hung, drawn and quartered, - BFing does not have the same importance attached to it because of the presence of infant formula to fall back on to. I have been a health professional for 25+ years now and everyfew months I hear stories like this - i strongly feel the only way it will alter is for parents to be the ones who lead, to make sure they have all the facts, the bare bones.
You know, in my role as a NN nurse that means asking each mother of a preterm or ill infant to give them her milk even if she has no intention of BFing and making sure she knows why. Not easy when they are upset about their baby and decision making is hard and they really do not want to express. But again as i said we have to face the fact that we are there to give the info and then acknowledge their right to choose how to go and to continue to support them. I am always amazed at how many women will not express even when their baby is very ill. And I am not attacking these women, as there most likely are women reading this who have been there and I support your right to choose but that is my own personal viewpoint which as an individual not a professional I can express ( sorry ) here.
I worked in the States for 2 years a while ago and the approach is much more direct and by the Drs who to parents hold more credibility !!!!!! and backed up by the insurance companies, makes sense doesn't cost them much beyond a breast pump

So I think parent power has to be the way but not going to work when we have professionals intimidating and using their position on vulnerable mothers.

Woops - meant throw not through, sorry.

Totally agree with you oneofeight. Sounds like he should be sacked! I think there should be a culling in the NHS of peope who are crap at their jobs- it makes me so cross. It gives the rest of us a bad name.

i completly agree with parent power. i always give patients advice leaflets on their conditions so they can go away and have a read/reflect and come back with questions. the problem (generally not necessarily with bf) comes when the media gets hold of a story - often not based in fact - and then everyone believes the papers (MMr prime example)

you sound like a great HP. lets get rid of the bad ones!

!!!!!!!! SM
we can't do antythign right can we - feed too or too little.arrggghhh.

Just a quick update - BFC at the hospital was v helpful and we have a rough plan to move forward, without formula where poss. This is the kind of support I would have hoped for from the HV but at the end of the day I guess they just do not necessarily always have the knowledge.

It actually reassures me to see all the differing points of view on here - means no-one has all the answers, so I can stop beating myself up for not knowing what to do!