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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Guess who got banned from the breastfeeding support group ?

100 replies

BabiesEverywhere · 02/01/2008 17:03

ME !!!

Haven't been for a few weeks, due to illness and Christmas stuff and they were closed a couple of weeks.

Turned up this morning to be asked straight away for a private word by the HCA. She regrets to inform me that they are changing the rules as to age of children permitted at the group. I asked how old, but they have not decided yet. (I suspect it will be the age of my child) So apparently my time is limited at this group

She said she knew I had been talking about her, I clarified that I had sent a letter to her boss asking for more training for her, as she had no idea what she was talking about regarding breastfeeding and was telling all the women to do things which damaged the potential for women to continue breastfeeding. I said she was a nice woman who can run a group well etc, but her knowledge was outdated and in many cases wrong. I re-offered to pass on information, books and studies so she can educate herself, I won't be holding my breath.

So a short time later, we return back to the group. One mother in a great amount of distress came straight to me asking me for information on her problem, which I can't give her as I'm banned from talking in this group. I suggest we go for a cuppa after the group.

This mum had been been away from her 4 month old exclusively breastfed baby during the day only for a week. Baby was struggling to latch on now and the mum thought she was losing her milk.

The HCA said that her milk had dried up and there was nothing she could do about it now and that there was nothing wrong with formula, her baby would be fine on it.

A couple of other mums had suggested expressing but the HCA was luke warm about this suggestion.

I said nothing

Later in the cafe my friend and I comfort this mum, who is panicking about having to use formula. I explain I am a formula child and if she needs to use it, it will be fine but it is much too early too worry about that.

Establish she can still 'feel the milk and let down', we gave her details of the breastfeeding support lines, Kellymom website and I mentioned the bog standard supply increasing stuff, eating oatmeal, herbs you can take like mothers tea, fenugreek(no idea if they work but some people swear by them). She liked the idea of bathing with baby and extra skin to skin time. Also suggested expressing milk onto the nipple and to stimulate letdown so the baby gets milk straight away when he latches etc (Can?t remember where I read that last bit so I hope that is correct)

I thought that really she just needed to relax, as she was so worked up about it not working she was bouncing off the walls. No wonder her child was picking up on her understandable distress. Happily just the knowledge, that it was more than possible even if her milk had gone (which it hadn't) to build it up again, cheered her up no end.

Half an hour later her son was happily nursing in the cafe.

But this kind of thing is why my friend and I feel we have to attend the group (whilst I?m not banned) That mother went from being a distress upset mum to a happy mum because we listened to her and we were confidant that this was a problem that could be overcome.

But as the HCA was so confidant that she was right and the milk had ?dried up? and had NO suggestions on how to help this mother except tell her to use formula. She sat and watched this distress mum and did not think to say. Let me look that up for you/speak to my boss to see if there is another solution etc

I am feeling very mixed up.

Happy that this mum is back on the right feeding path for her.

Cross and angry that I'm being made out to be an interfering nasty person, when all I want is for people to do the job they are paid to do.

OP posts:
Jackstini · 04/01/2008 14:39

BE - I am north-ish
Understand it would not be ideal for you to bring a mass of annoyed toddler feeders with you!
However, 1 or 2 showing up occasionally without acknowledging we 'knew' you might work...
Would be happy to pop in one week whilst I am 'in the area...'
Meanwhile I think you are doing fantastically and hope this woman's denial cannot go on forever. It will be hard for her though like Tiktok says, if she admits it now it is a whole crock of errors she is agreeing to

Monkeybird · 04/01/2008 15:30

I can be north(west-)ish too?

I'm not (yet) an extended BF but have done 3 babies now. Could quite happily pose as newbie with my 4.5 mo and ask awkward questions. Will wear a pink carnation to only identify myself to you and who would know?!

No, I'm sure you're right to just keep plugging away at their policies etc but if you do want a small advance party of cavalry, let me know

Jennster · 04/01/2008 16:38

North West here too. No2 5 months, No1 bf to only 14 but I'm starting peer support course next week Just let me know if you need me

ReverseThePolarity · 04/01/2008 18:08

NW here too. Ds is nearly nine months... I have my pink carnation at the ready and am happy to ask semi-awkward questions with wide, innocent eyes!!

NorthernLurker · 04/01/2008 18:20

eight months here in yorkshire - pink carnations readily available

BabiesEverywhere · 04/01/2008 21:10

LOL, You ladies are truly wonderful

OP posts:
MerryLittleCarrotmas · 04/01/2008 22:35

Me too, me too! My dd is so tiny that at nearly 6 months she looks much younger - she'd be a great red herring!

morningpaper · 04/01/2008 22:39

BabiesEverywhere: Just to say you are an absolute SAINT and are doing such marvellous work supporting these mums and standing up for what's RIGHT. Keep at it, we are ALL right behind you. You are a real example. XXX

TheYoungVisiter · 04/01/2008 22:47

Babieseverywhere I think you are amazing.

[waves pompoms]

galaxymummy · 04/01/2008 23:06

This unicef course sounds good has any mumnetter who has done it got a www. for me to take a look? especially interested in cost

tiktok · 04/01/2008 23:43

galazy, the unicef course is aimed at healthcare professionals - I honestly don't think it is really applicable to mothers working with other mothers.

amytheearwaxbanisher · 04/01/2008 23:49

didnt read whole thread but i really think you should set up your own group

galaxymummy · 06/01/2008 16:27

Dear Tiktok
am sure bfc can access unicef course anyone else got news of uncief course?

tiktok · 06/01/2008 17:01

galaxy, I know - I have known breastfeeding counsellors and students who have done it. It is aimed at health care professionals, and will not train people in mother to mother support.

Jackstini · 06/01/2008 21:17

Sitting here pmsl at vision of room full of bfing mners wearing pink carnations.
Next time you are annoyed BE get that image in your head!

BabiesEverywhere · 07/01/2008 11:46

I was thinking last night about this issue (sad I know) I think the main issue is the HCA negativity, towards the mothers, their problems breastfeeding, the mothers of older breastfed babies and me.

She must be very insecure in herself to worry about what I say. She mentioned about insurance last week. i.e. She was insured to talk where as the mothers are not. But the mothers attending this group don't need insurance to speak, they are not HCP's being paid to give advice. I think this is why she discourages any talking in the group, except herself of course.

But I don't understand the aggressive attitude towards me, when I never stated my opinion or give advice. When I was allowed to talk in the group, I answered questions about what I did with my DD and why I did it and I would outline relevant guidelines explaining where the mother could find more information. i.e. Department of Health suggests X or Unicef recommends Y, you can look at their website for more details.

Any well run support group with a confident leader would welcome experienced breastfeeding mothers, as they would encourage the newer mothers to keep on breastfeeding. But then a confident leader of a well run support group would be giving the same level of accurate information backed up with guidelines and would not feel threatened by someone else knowing the same stuff.

I am a very logically minded person and I don't understand how even if the HCA manages to run the more experienced mothers out of the group, it won't change the official guidelines and the facts of how breastfeeding works. Her attitude seems to be very head in the sand, if I don't hear the guidelines spoken within the group environment, I can deny they exist !?!

I hope when she finishes the Unicef course and actually knows some of the guidelines she has heard me (in the past) and some of the other mothers quote, she will start to realise that facts are simply a list of information which should be passed on to the mothers in it's entirety, not filtered via her personal opinion first.

But the most important things for her to learn are that...
No one knows everything and that it is important to say when you don't know rather than make it up on the spot (your milk has dried up )
AND
That she is not meant to tell the mothers what to do (sadly she doesn't realise she does this even when I explained that she did it to me, she looked shocked and disbelieving), She should be giving the relevant guidelines and information, even if it goes against her own ideas and let the mother decide what she wants to do.

Sadly I can't see the 3 day course being able to teach HCP to be more impartial, modest and be up to date with the latest guidelines but I can but hope.

But if maybe if she gets more confidence, she will become mature enough to stop trying to cause problems with the mothers of older babies and me and welcome us with open arms and the information we know and the experiences we have had, as a positive element of this support group. Mothers who can by just attending, can help the positive, supportive nature of the group, which at the moment is sadly lacking.

She doesn't see how unhappy the majority of the mothers are. They dare not complain, as they worry they will be banned from talking and from the group (wonder where they got that idea from) I just wish she could learn to run the group in a reasonable way for the sake on the new mums and babies?I won?t be holding my breath though.

OP posts:
BabiesEverywhere · 07/01/2008 11:47

Sorry about my long posts, I just think about this a far bit.

OP posts:
PrismManchip · 07/01/2008 11:53

You have to be insured to talk????? That doesn't sound right!

I presume the first thing they do in their course is debriefing of their own feeding experiences, so maybe this will help her in itself. (Though I don't know about that course, maybe not.)

The sad fact is that you can know what the guidelines and recommendations are and still feel that they are not realistic in some way for the majority of people. It's quite a paternalistic attitude she has, isn't it? It's a huge amount of knowledge she is supposed to have, though, so I guess she is a dithering mass of insecurity at having to do the class and at being challenged in any way.

BabiesEverywhere · 07/01/2008 12:13

Apparantly the leaders of breastfeeding support groups do need to be insured, in case their bad information means they ended up getting sued. (Is that right ?)

Which if true, makes the fact that the HCA's Boss is ignoring this situation even more unbelievable.

OP posts:
tiktok · 07/01/2008 14:20

Babies, the HCA will have blanket insurance from the PCT who employ her and she can spout nonsense anywhere she goes.

If someone actually died or fell ill as a result of her rubbish, then the PCT's insurance company would pick up the tab if action was taken.

She will also be insured through her own professional orgaisation against claims of clinical negligence.

It's the same with the vol orgs - I am insured through NCT for anything I say with my NCT bfc hat on.

ScottishMummy · 07/01/2008 14:29

however an HCA is untrained and therefore not holding a professional qualification, so not actually accountable or responsible to any regulatory body, but her supervisor the Nurse/MW is responsible for the delegated tasks actions of HCA and is likely to face queries and potentially (although not necessarily held accountable)

The MW/Nurse has a professional code of conduct, standards and responsibility to ensure she delegates tasks and supervises appropriately

the HCA snctions could range from warning, to disciplinary, but cant be "struck off" as such as HCA isnt registered profession

tiktok · 07/01/2008 15:33

I didn't know HCAs were not regulated, ScottishMummy. She will still be insured under the PCT, though....and therefore able to trot out rubbish

ScottishMummy · 07/01/2008 15:40

yes as NHS employeee she is accountable for her actions, and obviously pts can complain, but her supervisor the MW is responsible for ensuring she is capeable for her role. The MW is the registered professional NMC responsible for supervising the actions of the HCA

BabiesEverywhere · 07/01/2008 16:13

The supervisor is a Health Visitor not a Midwife, do they still have the same professional code of conduct etc ?

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 07/01/2008 16:15

yes HV are nurses too
NMC regulates them

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