Guess who got banned from the breastfeeding support group ?

[BabiesEverywhere]

ME !!!

Haven't been for a few weeks, due to illness and Christmas stuff and they were closed a couple of weeks.

Turned up this morning to be asked straight away for a private word by the HCA. She regrets to inform me that they are changing the rules as to age of children permitted at the group. I asked how old, but they have not decided yet. (I suspect it will be the age of my child) So apparently my time is limited at this group

She said she knew I had been talking about her, I clarified that I had sent a letter to her boss asking for more training for her, as she had no idea what she was talking about regarding breastfeeding and was telling all the women to do things which damaged the potential for women to continue breastfeeding. I said she was a nice woman who can run a group well etc, but her knowledge was outdated and in many cases wrong. I re-offered to pass on information, books and studies so she can educate herself, I won't be holding my breath.

So a short time later, we return back to the group. One mother in a great amount of distress came straight to me asking me for information on her problem, which I can't give her as I'm banned from talking in this group. I suggest we go for a cuppa after the group.

This mum had been been away from her 4 month old exclusively breastfed baby during the day only for a week. Baby was struggling to latch on now and the mum thought she was losing her milk.

The HCA said that her milk had dried up and there was nothing she could do about it now and that there was nothing wrong with formula, her baby would be fine on it.

A couple of other mums had suggested expressing but the HCA was luke warm about this suggestion.

I said nothing

Later in the cafe my friend and I comfort this mum, who is panicking about having to use formula. I explain I am a formula child and if she needs to use it, it will be fine but it is much too early too worry about that.

Establish she can still 'feel the milk and let down', we gave her details of the breastfeeding support lines, Kellymom website and I mentioned the bog standard supply increasing stuff, eating oatmeal, herbs you can take like mothers tea, fenugreek(no idea if they work but some people swear by them). She liked the idea of bathing with baby and extra skin to skin time. Also suggested expressing milk onto the nipple and to stimulate letdown so the baby gets milk straight away when he latches etc (Can?t remember where I read that last bit so I hope that is correct)

I thought that really she just needed to relax, as she was so worked up about it not working she was bouncing off the walls. No wonder her child was picking up on her understandable distress. Happily just the knowledge, that it was more than possible even if her milk had gone (which it hadn't) to build it up again, cheered her up no end.

Half an hour later her son was happily nursing in the cafe.

But this kind of thing is why my friend and I feel we have to attend the group (whilst I?m not banned) That mother went from being a distress upset mum to a happy mum because we listened to her and we were confidant that this was a problem that could be overcome.

But as the HCA was so confidant that she was right and the milk had ?dried up? and had NO suggestions on how to help this mother except tell her to use formula. She sat and watched this distress mum and did not think to say. Let me look that up for you/speak to my boss to see if there is another solution etc

I am feeling very mixed up.

Happy that this mum is back on the right feeding path for her.

Cross and angry that I'm being made out to be an interfering nasty person, when all I want is for people to do the job they are paid to do.

The structure of the group could be changed to specifically require info and support given by helpers to be consistent with UNICEF, bf organisations and Baby Friendly. That sounds as if I could phrase it better.

The 10 steps could be framed and displayed at the entrance to the session each time it is held.

I think you deserve a medal for keeping your cool and then going on to help that mother so gently and effectively, so that her baby is feeding from her as they both wish.

Remember you are not the only one fighting these sorts of battles, by no means.

Second everything moondog has said. Well done for sticking at it.

I do hope this course will go some way to educating her in the ways of breastfeeding.

But it will not address the issue of thinking she knows it all, when atm she knows nothing.

It will not stop her promoting formula feeding, early weaning, schedule feeding, babies sleeping in their own room from day one and anything else that she thinks is best.

She welcomes the women, (in some cases though her mismanagement) who have ended up unwillingly mix feeding or formula feeding to the group. Discourages any positive discussion of breastfeeding as it might upset this subset of women.

Now she looks to restrict the group to younger babies only. Though in reality I am waiting for them to come up with a 'BabiesEverywhere is not welcome' rule

I do value your advice moondog and I will properly do it once I get the courage together and I can quieten the voices in my head telling me I am interfering too much etc.

I should should correct a couple of points about the HCA I moan about so much.

The HCA is a nice lady and is nice to the other ladies (and usually to me too, in general apart from the shouting that one time and these private chats where I am banned from the group, this is the second banning I have had this year )

She is 110% sure that she knows what she is doing is right and everything she orders the women to do, she honestly feels is in the mother's best interest.

She will not worry about the mother she left in tears today. Well, I will correct that...She will be content, that her advice 'Just move to formula, your milk has dried up forever' Is the best advice to have been given to that mother and she will feel that in the long run the mother will be happier bottle feeding her baby, than trying to do that impossible hard, tiring and painful task of breastfeeding a baby.

She is a nice person and she wants to help the mothers. Sadly she is uneducated in breastfeeding, thinks she is always right and unwittingly is very unsupportive in every thing she says and does. The fact that she thinks she does a good job says a lot about her personality and confidence levels.

Babies, will you CAT me please? (I don't have facility and have an extremely identifying email)

You're not interfering, this can't go on

berolina, have CAT'd you

Babies, I was lucky enough to be a member of a BF Support Group when I fed DD1 and DS1 (now 10 and 8). It was run by other BF mothers, with the support of a retired HV, and their advice to me when I was diagnosed (when DD was 5 months old)with a giant lactating fybroadanoma (milk-filled cyst) and told by the so-called experts at the NHS that I would have to give up feeding or my breast would explode (yes, really) was superb. (I didn't give up, and simply went to the doc to have my cyst drained every couple of weeks!) They'd all been on training courses, run, I think, by ABM or NCT and really knew what they were talking about.

Correct advice is invaluable, and you did the right thing with your friend...I hope she's successful in re-establishing BF. Do consider setting up your own group. You sound like you'd do a really good job. And anyway, isn't the point of a BF support group to give SUPPORT to BF mothers, and encourage them to overcome problems? And banning you cos your baby's too old now? Well that's just ridiculous!! What's wrong with extended BF? Both mine were 2 1/2 before they completely stopped!

Best of luck with your battle. BF really needs committed people like you!

thanks babies, will be in touch

Have you tried contacting AIMS (Association for Improvements in Maternity Services) They are very tenacious and get things done and I bet they would be interested in this!

not toooo surprised to read it was you be!! but v sorry it is coming to this, you are so much right and she is so very very wrong, lovely though she may be.

I kind of gathered this would be you as well, but OMG, she really takes the biscuit, reminds me of Marjory Daws.

Please keep 'interfering' BE. These mothers need someone who will stand up for them.

but she is NOT LOVELY she is undermining other people's choices in the guise of loveliness. this makes her HORRID and i am really frothing about this.

I have followed this sorry saga from the start. Knew this would be you when I saw the title. Am still stunned they want to put an age limit on babies in the group though - was mouthing like a goldfish when I read that.

Am shocked by this woman. It makes me angry, when I think about how hopeless, insecure and vulnerable I was as a first time BFing mother. An encounter with this silly woman would probably have cost me my beautiful, precious year and a bit of feeding my daughter.

Good for you for keeping on with it BE.

Well, I have heard from the original distress mum and she managed another breastfeed this evening and a small topup and is sounding much happier.

I also heard from another mum in the group, who has actually put a complaint in. God I hope she doesn't get in trouble for it. But she was shocked at the treatment of the distress mum and wanted to say something.

I suspect this complaint will also be filled in the 'she must be a trouble making' in tray on the boss's desk

Well, I feel much calmer now, ready to don breastfed baby and return again next week.

Tune in next week, for the weekly rants about the unsupportive breastfeeding group

"She is 110% sure that she knows what she is doing is right and everything she orders the women to do, she honestly feels is in the mother's best interest."

That could be said about an awful lot of people who have caused real harm... David Southall, for starters.

I mean, the combination of self-confidence and ignorance is very, very dangerous.

I just don't understand why women are being referred to this group from all over the area, is she really the best they can offer??!! .

babies just because she' "nice" doesn't mean she should be allowed to continue giving bad advice/information to people.

I would imagine several serial killers (no I'm not be dramatic... just watch too much CSI) have been described as "nice". Doesn't mean they were doing the right thing does it?

[quick disclaimer... Mars is not calling the HCA a serial killer... just couldn't think of another example on the fly]

Good for you for staying with it, Babies.

I would agree that going to the newspapers is pointless. It is not an interesting story for them, and the only poss way they could use it would be to personalise it, with you coming off worst. The prof journals will definitely not use it in the 'right' way - I mean, think about it! Who are the prof journals for? They are absolutely not in the habit of dissing one of their own.

I would also be less than optimistic that the 3 day UNICEF course will help. It might. On the other hand, it might be so challenging to her that she become defensive. It also concentrates a lot on the early days.

The 'banning' because of age of baby will be easily represented as an effort to keep small babies and boisterous toddlers apart - though I absolutely agree its main aim is to restrict you, and any other articulate, informed and experienced mothers. It's shortsighted though, as groups like these benefit hugely from experienced mothers and trained peer supporters - and by definition, they will not have small babies (unless they are second or subsequent children).

I wonder if you have anything to lose by documenting this most recent incident and sending it to the HCA's boss? And ultimately, the power resides in the other mothers, and I think it's great some of them have noticed and one of them has also complained....I wonder if the others can do so too? Difficult for you, as you will want to avoid being accused of stirring up a personal camapign against the HCA, so you will need to be careful to emphasise at all times your interests lie in improving the service to mothers. It sounds like you have been tactful and polite at all times, and you should manage this!

babieseverywhere, what do what you want to achieve? is it to get the group run by someone else, or for her to rein in a bit? even for the group to be closed? i agree with you, bad advice is worse than no advice.

when will she have finished the 3 days, is it over a long period of time?
was just thinking perhaps you should complain now, before you are banned officially, rather than waiting for her to do the training as you may not be around to see the result (or lack of i suspect). also it will look far worse for her if you are banned after you write to the pct etc.

x post with tiktok. excellent advice as always. babies, how old is your child (the one you are bringing to the group)? will they get away with 'boisterous toddler' as a reason for exclusion?

Oh ffs BE I am sooooooooo angry for you

I am at work but will read the thread properly later and will be back... [in manner of scary Terminator bloke]

You are fab. They are WRONG. Boss's boss's boss if necessary.

AN AGE LIMIT ON A BF GROUP FFS - against all guidelines surely????

Oooooh I am cross

I would go straight to the chief executive of the hospital trust with it cc'd to my local MP.

I would point out where you think she is giving advice that goes against WHO and UNICEF guidelines and I would also try to link in the five outcomes for children somewhere. Might be very tenuous but it is the current keystone of childrens services and would be a useful yardstick.

I had a problem with the hospital that I gave birth to DD2 in and I made a formal complaint about the midwife to the chief executive. It later turned out that she had written false items in my file and I made them strike large parts of it out. The midwife was asked to undertake more training but I'm not sure what happened after that.

I do know that I left feeling happier than I had at the start and I also felt like I'd been listened to and my concerns taken seriously which hadn't happened the first time I'd tried to complain to the sister on duty at the time.

mrspnut - I think you mean 'Every Child Matters' with the mention of the five outcomes, yes?

Not a bad idea, though I agree it might be difficult to shoehorn the aims and objectives of a bf support group, which is there at least partly for mothers....stuff like 'economic wellbeing' (I think that's the phrase) is gonna be hard, without talking about the benefits of breastfeeding generally (there is research that shows breastfed babies get higher up the socio-economic ladder, irrespective of background) , and no one is actually arguing against the benefits of bf. It's the effectiveness and appropriateness of this HCA in leading the group that's the main thing.

The Dept of Health guidelines might be better than quoting WHO and UNICEF.