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Infant feeding

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European formulas: a mass uncontrolled trial?

90 replies

AwayInAMunker · 10/12/2007 09:58

This from the most recent Baby Milk Action Update (No. 40, November 2007).

"Although the revised EU Directive in many ways improves the essential composition of formulas - a reason why so many Member States were keen to adopt it - it also allows other companies to add "other food ingredients, as the case may be." There is no requirement that the ingredients are evaluated by an independent scientific body prior to introduction onto the market - even though the majority of EU member States and the EU's advisory body, the Scientific Committee for Food, called for this safeguard. If manufacturers introduce a new infant formula they only have to submit a label to the authorities - and that is all. There is no notification procedure at all for follow-on milks. To make matters worse, follow-on milks may be able to carry claims which are supported only by research on adults.

Breastmilk substitutes can be the sole source of nutrition during a critical period of rapid growth and development. Minor modifications can have major effects on infant health. The Report of the Scientific Committee on Food, 2003, identifies problems that have occurred with the introduction of modified infant formulae. Examples include reduced protein availability with impairment of growth; trace element deficiency with severe clinical disease; chloride deficiency with long-term neurological damage and thiamine deficiency with severe clinical disease, including neurological damage and several cases of infant death.

The fact that the EU Directive failure to include a rigorous pre-market authorisation plays into the hands of the companies who are prepared to add any ingredient - before its safety has been properly evaluated - simply to gain competitive advantage. This is equivalent to a mass uncontrolled trial."

OP posts:
Sabire · 12/12/2007 17:05

"I find it very hard to talk rationally and sensibly about this issue." - no - you talk very rationally on this subject, as do almost all the 'nay sayers' on the subject of formula - but if you're anything like me you sometimes FEEL disabled by a crippling sense of injustice and frustration when you contemplate what the majority of other people seem to think and know about artificial feeding.

TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 12/12/2007 17:25

I agree pruni,it was what kept my DD alive and it's the best we've got. But it should be better.

OhGiveUsAPruniPudding · 12/12/2007 18:04

Yes exactly.
It should not be a money spinner for anyone.

tiktok · 12/12/2007 18:21

If there are important and beneficial ingredients in formula, that really do enhance health or reduce the risks of formula, then all formulas should have them.

TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 12/12/2007 18:56

Definitely tiktok, formula should be designed to be thebest possible alternative for babies and should all be the same, with the exception of soya milks etc for different demand.

MerryXMoss · 13/12/2007 12:20

I must say I'm not that more . BMA does turn you into a bit of a conspiracy theorist sometimes... but with good reason! (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.)

I wonder if there is a bit of a "la la la I'm not listening" attitude, or if people think that when you talk about reducing the risks of formula you're saying it because you're part of the "bf mafia" or other deeply unkind and hurtful phrases that I've heard.

Pruni: "I think there is something deeply weird about how we as a culture have responded socially to the historical challenges of women needing to work and how infant feeding (and discipline, witness the success of GF and CV) has been a victim of that. We are weird about babies full stop, compared to vast swathes of the globe"

So true, so true. In some cultures women take their babies to work with them, slung on their hips or backs, and just get on with life.

Whereas a few weeks ago I had to fight for my right to take my baby along to an antenatal bf class I am setting up at my local SureStart. When I posted on here about how silly I thought it was, most people agreed but quite a few came along to say "I think they're right actually your baby will be distracting". We do have weird ideas about babies and children - "seen and not heard".

OhGiveUsAPruniPudding · 13/12/2007 15:05

I just did a class and was delighted to see that one of the members had her young baby with her for the whole weekend.
THe baby slept in a sling, fed on demand, and if she needed to, the mother quietly slipped away for a few minutes. No bother at all (though I imagine the mum missed a fair bit).

motherhurdicure · 13/12/2007 16:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 13/12/2007 22:10

.....

moondog · 13/12/2007 22:12

Aaaaaaoooouwwwwwww

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 13/12/2007 22:29

oooooh, the stuff further down the thread about 'bm poos' is VERY interesting to me, because i did BLW with dd and was (rather geekily) blogging it at the time and i noticed that so many of the bfing mums were talking about changes in their children's poo. weirdly, there were no such changes in dd's poo, it was pretty much the same until she was a year old. and i've only JUST put two and two together that of course that was when she stopped having Aptamil First and started on cow's milk.

sheee-it. what ARE they putting in that stuff? [guilt icon]

breadandroses · 13/12/2007 23:00

So why is formula not manufactured by NHS? Why is it allowed to be for profit?

MrsFlora · 13/12/2007 23:09

QUESTION FOR YOU AWAYINAMUNKER;

what would you do if you couldn't breastfeed? would you let your baby die and not feed her/him?

breadandroses · 13/12/2007 23:11

ffs

MrsFlora · 13/12/2007 23:12

exactly!!!

breadandroses · 13/12/2007 23:14

ffs to you flora

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 13/12/2007 23:14

yes, she would. she's really hard-core.

mrsf, if you had a hard time bfing it hurts, and hunker's someone who does get that. so do i.
but it doesn't really follow that if you don't want you're child to die of starvation you should be grateful for anything that these companies churn out.

MrsFlora · 13/12/2007 23:19

what really upsets me is the fucking moral highness some woman develop over their ability to breastfeed and make us fell LIKE UTTER SHITS when is the ONLY alternative we have, am i right or am i wrong>

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 13/12/2007 23:22

you are Completely Completely Wrong. but you are obviously in pain and i know how that feels. what happened to you, then?

breadandroses · 13/12/2007 23:26

Gawd, I use to think BMA was only relevant in the developing world. Very interesting and Hunker.

tiktok · 13/12/2007 23:42

MrsFlora, babies who are not breastfed for whatever reason deserve the very best substitute that science can offer them, don't you agree? And their parents deserve to know what the contents are, and to be able to assess, as far as possible, the genuineness of any health claims? And to be sure that the very best possible substitute has been tested and checked and verified and evaluated as safe and effective?

That's what this debate is all about.

If you prefer not to know what's in formula, and prefer not to know the facts about how it is not tested and checked and verified and evaluated, then that is of course your choice. But it has nothing to with what Hunker would do if she had to use formula, or any daft rheorical questions about whether she would leave her baby to starve (pretty tasteless as well as daft and rhetorical, too).

tiktok · 13/12/2007 23:45

MrsFlora, just seen your latest post and mine was posted before I saw it....I am sorry you feel terrible, and it's horrible to want to do something for your baby and then it all goes wrong

No one here feels morally higher because they breastfed, believe me.

And you are wrong about the debate.

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 13/12/2007 23:59

MrsFlora - your attack on Hunker is utterly misguided and wrong. HunkerMunker has tirelessly campaigned for support for all women who struggle with feeding their babies.

She is NOT morally superior, or smug. She certainly isnt the one "making" you feel bad. I wonder if your own feelings over b/feeding make you see something in her posts that arent there?

Because all she has ever done is fight for clearer information, fair 'advertising', and more support for b/feeding women, who are sorely lacking in support in all manner of ways - right through from mws, hvs, gps and their own family and friends.

I'm so sorry you feel bad, but please dont attack someone who is simply campaigning for the benefit of all parents and their babies - irrespective of how they feed their babies.

TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 14/12/2007 10:23

MrsFlora, I don't know how thoroughly you red the thread, but it does have posts on here from both myself and pruni that did formula feed our babies. I was unable to breastfeed my daughter and it hurt, I totally understand that, and yes, formula was obviously what kept her live.

But surely the only other option for our babies should not be something companies can play around with and do what they want to to make it sell better?? At the expense of our babies!!!!

That's the point people have been trying to get across, and no-one is trying to make you feel bad for using formula whether you had to or chose to.

It's the companies that are making it as a product to line their pockets that should be feeling bad.

AwayInAMunker · 14/12/2007 12:11

MrsF, I understand why you've posted as you have, but I am afraid you've got me very wrong.

I haven't got time to write all I want atm, but I wonder if you might be interested in my blog? Have a look at the "about" page and tell me what you think - either through the site email or by leaving a comment.

And no, of course I wouldn't let my baby starve, nor would I advise anybody else to. I'm trying to make it better, for everyone, not having a smug moral high ground pop at women who are hurting. Honest.

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