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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

European formulas: a mass uncontrolled trial?

90 replies

AwayInAMunker · 10/12/2007 09:58

This from the most recent Baby Milk Action Update (No. 40, November 2007).

"Although the revised EU Directive in many ways improves the essential composition of formulas - a reason why so many Member States were keen to adopt it - it also allows other companies to add "other food ingredients, as the case may be." There is no requirement that the ingredients are evaluated by an independent scientific body prior to introduction onto the market - even though the majority of EU member States and the EU's advisory body, the Scientific Committee for Food, called for this safeguard. If manufacturers introduce a new infant formula they only have to submit a label to the authorities - and that is all. There is no notification procedure at all for follow-on milks. To make matters worse, follow-on milks may be able to carry claims which are supported only by research on adults.

Breastmilk substitutes can be the sole source of nutrition during a critical period of rapid growth and development. Minor modifications can have major effects on infant health. The Report of the Scientific Committee on Food, 2003, identifies problems that have occurred with the introduction of modified infant formulae. Examples include reduced protein availability with impairment of growth; trace element deficiency with severe clinical disease; chloride deficiency with long-term neurological damage and thiamine deficiency with severe clinical disease, including neurological damage and several cases of infant death.

The fact that the EU Directive failure to include a rigorous pre-market authorisation plays into the hands of the companies who are prepared to add any ingredient - before its safety has been properly evaluated - simply to gain competitive advantage. This is equivalent to a mass uncontrolled trial."

OP posts:
moondog · 10/12/2007 21:58

I'm interested and read my latest update from BMA with great interest.

Using formula generally is little more than a mass uncontrolled trial.
Peopel don't like it when you say that but it's true.

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 10/12/2007 22:03

Well, as far as I can tell - there have been quite a few studies on the incidence of diarrhoea and constipation on medical nutrition formulae.

There are also lots of comparative studies between brands as far as I could tell. This is what isnt available with infant formula. I dont see why not. Well, unless you count poxy graphs with meaningless figures on.

AwayInAMunker · 10/12/2007 22:20

There's stuff in Update about those graphs too.

And - oh shit - Lansinoh's owned by a company who breaks the International Code

OP posts:
AwayInAMunker · 11/12/2007 11:46

It's like I'm in a parallel universe where only a handful of people can see how shocking this is...

OP posts:
sfxmum · 11/12/2007 11:58

this is profoundly worrying and I fear the 'let's not make mums feel bad' is a poor argument to stop debate.
surely it is more about the future

AwayInAMunker · 11/12/2007 12:05

sfxmum, it's an argument the formula companies rely upon - it's part of their marketing strategy. Shocking, eh?

OP posts:
TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 11/12/2007 12:13

How on earth can they do this???
Every other type of food has to be properly labelled, and tested before it goes on the shelves does it not??
I wouldn't be surprised if catfood was safer than some of the stuff they are going to put in this formula to give the impression that baby is healthy.
Every mother out there,and every child, whether formula fed or breastfeed deserves to have the best science can provide to go into making formula milk. It should be made by people who cannot earn anything from it tbh.
The fact that it is a product markerted to increase profit fucks it up enough as it is.

mindalina · 11/12/2007 12:16

DS is formula fed, and I read this yesterday but didn't know what to say to it. TBH, this absolutely terrifies me, especially since we recently changed DS' milk and he has since had much runnier poos.

Although I don't want to think that I'm just sticking my fingers in my ears and going "la la la I can't hear you", I suspect I am because at the end of the day I simply don't know what to do about it - DS is just 11months so I assume he stills need formula milk.

TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 11/12/2007 12:21

As for 'let's not make mums feel bad' whatever happened to 'let's give mums the best possible alternative to breastmilk to feed their babies so they don't feel bad'.
I'm so annoyed I don't even want my angry man to wear a xmas hat!

cazzybabs · 11/12/2007 12:22

The think is how on earth can they test the formula ingredients - ohh can I borrow your new born baby and see what effect this nice chemical has on it?

So I can't see, for the companies, how they can be expected to test their formulas - except on adults?

(AM now hoping I will be able ot bf db3)

tiktok · 11/12/2007 14:12

cazzy, they do test formula on real babies. The difficulty is that the tests may only look for one thing, and never last a long time.

this thread has me tearing into one study, posted as an example of how formula is tested, and showing by my sharp and pertinent arguing how poor it is as a demonstration of anything - small sample, short term study, only looked at one thing.

I do find it astonishing that mothers would permit their babies to be guinea pigs for novel ingredients in formula, but they do....

sfxmum · 11/12/2007 14:22

I find it very hard to talk rationally and sensibly about this issue.
the amount of misinformation and prejudice surrounding breastfeeding is astonishing.

that formula companies have the budget to fudge the argument is despicable. certain things should not be open to a 'free market' idea ultimately we all end up paying for ill health in the future.

I do realise that sometimes it is not possible to breastfeed and those children surely deserve the best possible alternative

AwayInAMunker · 11/12/2007 17:24

sfxmum, you're right, there's something abhorrent about companies making massive profit from baby milk

OP posts:
BeeWiseMen · 11/12/2007 17:50

I have nothing really insightful to add but just wanted to say as someone who failed at bf very quickly, thinking about the stuff on this thread does make me feel guilty(and impotent and sad and fearful) but actually I think ensuring the safety of the milk my daughter drinks matters far more than my hurt feelings.

I feel bad because I failed at bf and because I have to feed my baby formula the nutritional benefit and even safety of which I have to take on trust from multinational corporations which exist solely to make money.

I'm with Bill Hicks on marketing by the way.

OhGiveUsAPruniPudding · 11/12/2007 17:54

The thing is, it isn't just formula that is a mass uncontrolled trial, is it? Just off the top of my head I can think of medicalised childbirth, baby wipes, anything by Johnson and johnson basically, prolonged use of cosmetics and skin products, the fast food diet...
We've been arsing about with infant feeding for hundreds of years - it's documented, it's bizarre, and millions of British babies have died. At least in this country, babies are not dying from being fed formula at this point in history.
I think there is something deeply weird about how we as a culture have responded socially to the historical challenges of women needing to work and how infant feeding (and discipline, witness the success of GF and CV) has been a victim of that. We are weird about babies full stop, compared to vast swathes of the globe. Companies that peddle all sorts of shit to slather them in or shove down their gullets make trillions of ££ and we hardly ever question it (except on MN ).
I think they should start marketing breastfeeding as an act of protest
[semi-serious]

OhGiveUsAPruniPudding · 11/12/2007 17:56

Bee I felt the same for a long time
I hadn't a clue! Now I know more, and I don't really feel guilty, I feel cross, much healthier

BeeWiseMen · 11/12/2007 18:02

I really don't get the "It makes people feel bad so let's not talk about it" argument. I mean that would pretty much put the 24 hour news channels out of business wouldn't it?

sfxmum · 11/12/2007 18:02

in a somewhat distant but related point I was listening to PM earlier and the discussion on the new initiative on childhood.

it makes me mad that we allow these outside forces to decide what is best for us what makes us successful particularly when it comes to our children.

bringing up children is not just about the mother ffs but it is still viewed as such.

suzi2 · 11/12/2007 22:53

I saw this post earlier but I'm not quite sure what to say. TBH I'm rather shocked that formula companies can get away with this. I don't know why I'm shocked as it's the sort of thing I'd expect.

I have nothing against formula. Surely since a majority of babies are fed it for the first year there should be tighter controls? It's mad. Might need to join BMA... except then my friends and relatives would think I'm even weirder... they can't see the problem at all!

Also agree with pruni, though I admit I'm a fan of babywipes as they appeal to my laziness. Other than that my babies are as natural as possible. I can't be bothered coating them in smellies lol.

suzi2 · 11/12/2007 23:00

The 'it makes people feel guilty' argument also pisses me off. Fair enough, a lot of people do feel guilty (which the majority shouldn't) but surely they still have a right to a good product and accurate information about the product they're using? When I went to buy DD some formula I was taken aback by the iffy claims on the packaging. Of course, they're all written in such a way that they're non commital.

TinyTimLivesinVictorianSqualor · 12/12/2007 11:46

I was reading my antenatal book in bed last night, and a book that can't really be seen to be too bias (itis called The Natural Way, but that's more WRT to homeopathic remedies) It has some 'good points' regarding bottlefeeding over breast, but mainly says it can be more convenient than breast because anyone can do it anywhere.
It then goes on to say what is in formula milk,
Water, but* not enough so your baby will need extra boiled water.
Protein, ubt* in too high a concentration so it has to be diluted which lowers the calorie content and then has to be supplemented with lactose.
Fat, which is less easily absorbed then breastmilk fat.
Carbohydrate, but
in insufficient quantity so lactose has to be added.
Vitamins and minerals, but* not enough so many formulas are enriched with extra vitamins and extra iron.

Now, I'd never checked up on formula tbh, I knew roughly what it was, and when I had to feed DD with it, I just got on with it. But I am horrified that companies are allowed to make such a cocktail of what the baby needs and market it. There re many people who cannot breastfeed, as well as those who choose not to, and IMO, rather than spending money on marketing campaigns and giving slebs freebies, they should be trying to make the formula closer to what the baby actually requires! I thought it was as close as could be anyway, but after reading that, combined with the OP here I really am amazed.

ruddynorah · 12/12/2007 12:10

along with the fingers in ears 'lalala-ing' that goes on is the old 'well they wouldn't be allowed to sell it if it wasn't ok.' a lot of mums go by that. along with the, 'on advice of HV' to justify a decision...same as 'lalala-ing.'

flowerysantassack · 12/12/2007 12:15

I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread.
Sometimes blissful ignorance is better, which is why many people may not have read this/posted, unfortunately. I'm off now.

Piffle · 12/12/2007 12:42

I'm not at all shocked
It's what I'd always assumed.
That's why I've never looked at the stuff in any detail

Lucky I was able to breastfeed and never have to worry.

OhGiveUsAPruniPudding · 12/12/2007 16:53

Well I didn't breastfeed, much. It all went horribly awry. And when you're in that position you just don't have a choice. On balance, formula is not a bad thing imo, it is not a killer (here), it is not producing thin, sick children with no IQs.
It would be much better if it weren't marketable imo, then the gimmickry associated with marketing just wouldn't be an issue.