Anyone else out there who doesn't produce enough milk?

[babbler]

Hi I have a 4 month old son, and always planned to breast feed fully from the minute he was born.I was very fortunate he latched on properly from the start. However after 2 weeks of this the poor little mite had lost about 11oz of weight. The midwife then made me feel so inadequate as a mother by showing through expressing the milk i had that I was only producing a few mls. I was devistated, tried everything to produce more milk but couldn't. I had to give my baby formular, which he is stioll on and thriving on it, but still giving the breast at every feed, in the hope of giving him something good from me.Anyone else had the same experience, because i feel alone in this, and get upset when i see mums breast feeding fully when out.

No, I haven't had this experience but I do know that how much you can express has no baring on how much milk you have (I have friends who could never express anything and yet bf for months). I am sorry that this has happened to you but it seems your midwife wasn't very supportive.

Don't be sad though, it sounds as if you have really tried your best, you have done all you can so there's no need to be upset. As you say, your ds is thriving

Thanks, but I always feel a bad mum when i have to get the bottle out, almost feel like i'm only 99% of a mum because of it, even after 17 weeks.

Yes - I had exactly the same experience with my DS. I felt awful about it and did for a long time afterwards. I hated it when people told me it wasn't the end of the world because I felt that it was. DS is now nearly 3 - still loves his milk. It wasn't really until he was the age that I would have stopped feeding him that I felt better about it. I did have a really positive experience with his younger brother whom I breastfed until past his first birthday - never had any formula.
Please, babbler, try not to feel bad about it. It does sound as though your midwife wasn't as supposrtive as she could have been but, in the great scheme of things, it really is only a small part. Hang in there - you are doing your best for your baby, which is all any of us can do

this happened to me as well with all of my babies. I had to give supplementary bottles to keep the HV happy - she didn't think they were growing fast enough - I felt slightly bullied over it all to be honest but didn't want trouble from the HV

I consoled myself with the thought that whilst I was still breast feeding at all they were benefitting from the immunities etc and bottles did provide an added convenience in some circumstances.

Don't worry about it - you know you are doing the best for your baby and that's what matters.

oh, poor you. your HV sounds like a total stinker. agree that expressing (particularly at 2 wks ffs) has no bearing on what the baby is taking in. i understand loads of babies lose weight at the start. my baby lost weight and didn't exactly race up the centile chart on breastmilk alone, but thanks to vv supportive HV i kept on with breastfeeding though i mixed with formula from 4 months till giving up at 7 and all was well.

also, well done for keeping going despite her best efforts. i'm sure loads of support will be forthcoming here. if you're still offering the breast, i doubt your supply has shut down. do you breastfeed before or after the bottle? if before, i'm sure your son is still getting useful stuff from you.

Hi Babbler ...
Don't feel sad, although I do understand why you feel sad as I gave up b/fing my son at 6 weeks due to lack of support in building up my supply ...
My friend wasn't able to breastfeed any of her 3 children (she has funny skin which means she bruises very easily and with every baby after 3 days her whole breasts were black and blue) She has said that she watches other mums breastfeed and it gives her a knot of regret and sadness in her tummy ... that she has failed in something.
And do you know what? She is one of the best mums I know ... she is fantastic, and the fact that breastfeeding didn't work for her has no bearing on her ability as a mother.
Remember that there are thousands of mums out there who adopted their babies and are excellent mothers ...
I had similar feelings with DS and DD with the fact that I was unable to give birth properly. I had to have c/sections with both and for a while with DS I felt like I had failed him, my DH and my whole family. I used to apologise for not being able to give birth!!
But now I am over that ... I have two beautiful healthy children (one I stopped b/fing at 6 weeks, the other one I managed to b/f for 9 whole months - only just stopped). The fact I couldn't push them out the normal way does not make me a bad mother, the fact that I couldn't b/f DS does not make me a bad mother.

In fact, I am a maternal domestic goddess ...
AND SO ARE YOU!!!!!!!!

I don't think that groups like the childbirth trust help in this matter either, they put the message across that anyone can do it, and it's easy!, and make any mum who can't or decide not to feel awful.

hi babbler, had something very like this, at 4 wks my ds lost weight and we ended up in hospital where i started topping up on doctor's advice. It was only my mum who kept going on about not having enough milk - could have slapped her at one point. what a horrible thing that the mw did. Expressing is apparently often different, especially as i used to be hunched tensely over the pump, desperately hoping to see more milk coming out! not a good way to produce more.

i know what you mean about feeling so sad about it. I had a try at 'relactating' and feel that this helped me breastfeed for longer - could dig up the thread where I wrote down what I did if you like, as now i can't remember! don't let anyone put you off mixed feeding for as long as you want to.

Thanks ghosty you've just put a smile on my face!.I gave birth naturally without pain relief I wasn't allowed any due to the baby being in distress in labour and my high blood pressure, and they had run out of epidurals!!, and all i can say is it hurt like hell, so maybe a csection was a blessing in disguise!. But hey i guess as long as they come out healthily that's all that matters, and that we are able to bear childrn unlike some other woman who long to have any, i guess it puts our experiences into perspective.

babbler
you/re great
why dont you call your local la leche league rep they are very good and helpful and totally realistic not like your h/v.
they advocate reg feeding at breast to build up your supply which i am sure u know already , but a mother naturally makes what the baby needs so dont be disheartened.

they helped me enormously and they are only a phonecall away

babbler....I feel so sad for you. You really haven't had the support you needed. People are right when they say that expressing is not a guide, but with that amount of weight loss, it's clear something wasn't right....I don't know what it was, but maybe it could have been fixed. Milk supply is 'driven' by the baby feeding effectiively, and feeding often. One of these 'bits' may not have been working well for you.

If you want to discuss building up your milk again, then call the NCT breastfeeding line 0870 444 8708 or one of the other helplines. They won't judge you or tell you what to do.

It makes me sad when you say groups like the NCT don't help because they give the impression it's easy. We have 300 breastfeeding counsellors who do what they do (spending like myself many hours talking to women who contact us, and hours on the web doing the same thing) because they know perfectly well that breastfeeding is sometimes very difficult indeed, and that sometimes, it really doesn't work...and that women need support and sympathy when it doesn't work out. Many breastfeeding counsellors have used formula themselves, and know at first hand the mixed emotions of it.

None of us want you to feel 'awful'.

So sorry to hear about this. I went through the same experience, though with a supportive and helpful HV. But I still felt like an inadequate mother. DD is 22 months old now. She is healthy and happy and I hope it will give you comfort to hear that my anxieties about feeding her now feel like something from another era. There are so many other ways to be a good mother.

Sorry didn't mean to offend, however prior to this problem, i was 100% behing nct, breast is best etc, as a health professional.However i did try everything possible to increase my supply, and i guess in this situation this time it didn't work for me.i still give my breast and there is milk there, just not enough for my baby. I do respect nct and all they do.

babbler, I didn't manage it with any of my three, despite trying everything. they all dropped weight like a stone and I was forced onto formula. And I would express from both boobs for an hour and end up with a quarter or half an ounce. I know that everyone says "it is just a question of beefing up your supply" and for many people that is true but I do think that some people just DON'T make sufficient milk. I don't believe that everyone can breastfeed if they just try hard enough and get enough support, I know it is a natural thing and SHOULD work but sometimes it just doesn't. Just like everyone should be able to give birth behind a bush in 6 hours, but not everyone can and some would die in the attempt. And at the end of the day, it is sad and frustrating and upsetting, but as long as he is getting food from somewhere and is happy and healthy it doesn't really matter in the long run. And it may be that with your second baby, if you have one, it will all work beautifully. But it may not, and you'll still be just as good a mother to that one as you are to this!

I suppose that NCT and LLL etc don't generally show the other side of the coin because they don't want to put anyone off bfing. I've been in a similar situation to you, babbler, and I've also succeeded in fully bfing another baby, but neither of my experiences were anything like I'd been led to expect.

My ds was born at 8lb10oz, and dropped to 7lb7oz within 12 days. Under pressure from the midwife I too went over to formula, but, like you, kept giving him boob at every feed. I HATED HATED HATED putting that bottle in his mouth...felt like a failure...felt un-womanly...and when I confessed my awful feelings about it to the midwife, she ignored me. I so understand what you say, babble. I continued giving ds breast at every feed (including bottle feeds) until he was 5.5m.

Every drop of breastmilk that you give your ds is good for him, and he gets the comfort of your breast, and you get good feelings out of it as well.

This is a poignant passage in FreshMilk:TheSecretLifeof_Breasts, from a woman who struggles to breastfeed...

"The breastfeeding books, of which I have burned more than many people have bought, say, often in all capital letters, BREASTFEEDING SHOULD NOT HURT. Well, apparently my breasts can't read. After three weeks of trying to nurse... he gained absolutely no weight... I weaned him. I was furious -- at the books, at the La Leche League, but most of all at my breasts. I wanted to tattoo 'For Decorative Purposes Only; Not to Be Given to Small Children' on them."

She went on to nurse her 2nd child successfully, but only by learning to get used to quite painful letdown in the first 2 months, which is what I had with 2 of my babies, too.

babbler...I am glad for you that you continue to give your baby the breast. As well as the closeness which many mothers value, you are giving antibodies which is great for the baby's health. I wish more mothers who feel let down by the breastfeeding experience realised that this is an option. You might be surprised at women who call, often very distressed, because they feel they have to go over to formula 100 per cent and don't think (or no one has suggested) they can continue to offer the breast and use it for comfort for as long as they want to. One woman said to me, 'oh, am I allowed to do that?' Isn't that sad?

prettycandles, where does the idea come from that nct etc don't show the other side of the coin? The breastfeeding support organisations all sell books and produce leaflets covering every possible problem of breastfeeding, including ones you may not have heard of

We are 'in business' solely because of the other side of the coin. The nct breastfeeding line takes 35,000 calls a year, almost all of them a reminder of the huge struggles faced by women who want to breastfeed.

Sure, in classes and elsewhere, we present breastfeeding in a positive light as well, because that, too, reflects reality....thank goodness!

When mothers and babies are healthy after birth, when they are not separated and when the baby isn't affected by drugs, when mothers are encouraged to stay skin-to-skin with their babies and when expert help is on hand to adjust any painful latches, and there as well to recognise when it isn't going well, and when the society in general is supportive of breastfeeding, mothers breastfeed (on the whole) happily and for as long as they want to.

On this thread, we've heard from mothers whose breastfeeding was discovered at 12 days and 14 days was not nourishing the baby. That is very, very late - in a properly supportive situation, it would have been spotted by day 2 or 3, and the right adjustments made to fix it.

That was meant to be a smiley, prettycandles, about the 'problems you have never heard of' to show you I wasn't 'getting at you' : )

My first reaction to this thread was how sad. Sad that you had an unsupportive, uninformed midwife looking after you who couldn't recognise what the problem really was.

My story could so easily have turned out like yours. Ds was born weighing 5lb 14oz. At 7 days old he was discovered to have lost over 1lb going down to 4lb 10oz. He had not been feeding effectivly and had started to get hysterical at the breast leading to complete refusal.

However the difference was that I had access to the best advice form midwives, health visitors and breastfeeding counsellors who helped to support me rou a very difficult first month until ds eventually learned how to breastfeed.

I originally joined the NCT as a bottlefeeding mum after I had dd and met nothing but support and understanding. I beleive also that bfc's are trained in dealing with de-briefing of breastfeeding experiences and helping mums come to terms with things so do give them a call.

I hope things work out for you one way or the other.

Babbler,
Expressed milk doesn't equal what your baby gets when bf - some mums can't express lots but when bf produce enough for their baby. MW actions here pure rubbish and you should complain to someone about how she treated you & also gave absolute rubbish bf infomation.
Demand equals supply - the more you bf the more you produce. Take your baby to bed for a 'babymoon', when you bf, relax & sleep with baby for a day or two. Get someone else, if you can, to do everything else in the house and for you. If you like quit using the bottle - let baby feed on demand. Check how many wet nappies per 24 hrs - disposable around 6-8 (I think) means baby getting enough breastmilk. Carry baby around with you so you can bf when doing other tasks. Go with how ho feel. If you want to bf go with it. Wishing you all the best

tiktok - are you nct? my friend went to a talk & was told a good place to bf is a changing room with curtains closed!! is this nct advice? Friend was shocked - me too as this seems to go against what I thought nct thought about bf being acceptable? (Babbler - sorry to interrupt your question here)

Tiktok, I agree with you as you know I am also a BF counsellor (though less experienced)... however as a doula at least half of my postnatal clients took NCT classes and they mostly tell me that their class didn't give them the right info on BF (i.e. not saying it is incorrect info but that it's easy to BF... so some are in for a shock).... I always make sure that they do need to feedback this to their teachers.

The "I don't have enough milk" or "my milk isn't good enough" is probably what i hear most often, it makes me cry becasue it is (VERY VERY often) incorrect.... and luckily those who manage to get the correct info can have this fixed quickly... I am sorry this wasn't your experience babbler.... but MWs and HVs are in my opinion (in general) not up to speed with BF.

cardigan, no of course that isn't nct policy!! I can only assume this was a misunderstanding. Sometimes, people ask 'where can I feed?' and maybe the nct person thought she wanted a suggestion of where she might do it in a shop.....it would be up to her whether she wanted the curtains closed (hasn't this been done to death on another thread?!)

pupuce, under the right circumstances, it is mostly easy to breastfeed. It's a normal, physiological function. I am sure you agree with that!

Too often, the right circumstances don't happen : (

Any nct class should make this clear.

I expressed longterm for both my DS1 and my twins DS2&3. Once my DS1 finally latched on I never had problems with supply. However, both times when expressing I really struggled with supply, and needed fenugreek to help me get anywhere near enough. Each time it took time to build up to anywhere near decent amounts. Some people really don't give up their milk easily to a pump !

It doesn't mean you don't have enough milk - it probably meant your baby hadn't learnt feed effectively - may have been positioning, may even have been tongue tie (I think).

Your midwife should have been shot for telling you that.

If you are still breastfeeding, then make sure you feed before you give any formula, and if you want, try fenugreek capsules to help increase your supply.

It doesn't mean things won't worl out better next time.