What else can I try? Really struggling.

[Stefka]

The last three feeds were awful (badly cracked nipples) - I cried all the way through them then cried in between them too because of the pain and the general feeling of total failure that I have right now over this whole BF thing. My LO will be one month on Sunday and I had sad I would give it till then but it looks like there is going to be no amazing break through for me by then. I so badly don't want to give up but I am not coping. Is there anything else I can try?

So far I have tried nipple shields, silverettes, lanisoh, the other one -kamikosan or whatever it is called, a herbal remedy and jelonet. At the moment I am back to using the jelonet as I find it the most soothing in between feeds. I have tried resting one side for a day to give it a break and expressing. I have also had six different people come out to watch me feed - a nct counselor, a midwife who used to be a breast feeding counselor, two breast feeding support workers from the dr's, my health visitor and a woman who runs the local bf support group. They were trying to get me into a specialist clinic but that feel through and I feel totally unhelpable.

Last night I couldn't even sleep because of the thought of the next feed when I woke up. Right now I hate bf even though I want to do it. It is making me completely miserable and I am at a loss as to what to do next.

Anyone got any other ideas for things I can try?

hi - so sorry you are having such a hard time, i am not really a bf expert but am sure there are people on mn who will have good advice for you. I had sore cracked nipples with my dd at the beginning and it did get better after a while, but i was only experiencing discomfort when she latched on ,once she was feeding it was ok. So maybe not as severe as yours, but some good advice i was given was to "air" my nipples as much as possible - walking around the flat topless was weird!!!! But it did help them to heal more quickly. i found lansinoh the best thing, also bathing with very very diluted tea tree oil in between feeds (make sure it is all rinsed off before next feed so your lo doesn't get a mouthful of it!!) . Good luck.

Hi, have things like thrush been ruled out stefka?? I had it 3 times (it was probably just once but got better and then worse again) and it feels like sandpaper on your nipples when feeding... Am guessing all those people would have cheked this though. If you do swap to bottles just dont feel bad about it as you need to do what it takes to sleep and enjoy these first few weeks more. Good luck.

I was told to just use breastmilk- after each feed, express a little and rub it in. It really worked.

This may sound silly and you may already be doing this but have you tried grabbing behind your nipple area between thumb and middle finger and making sure all of the nipple area goes in the baby's mouth. Thumb should be at 12 o clock on the top of the nipple area. Middle finger at 6 oclock directly below. If you don't get all the darker skin in you can get cracking. Use the middle finger as the forefinger can get in the way of baby. To help with current cracks i find squeezing bm on them and let them out in the air!Don't answer the door though!!

Really feeling for you, I had v similar experience, but to give you hope I'm feeding DD now at 16 mths. You're not unhelpable, and it's not your fault. I remember how hard and upsetting it is though.

Do you feed in a variety of positions? Lying down? That can sometimes help babes to latch well as you're both supported well.

Is the latch itself painful, and has it always been? did you get sore nips straight away, and do you know why?

I tried different positions but they hurt more. The latch is the worst part but it stays sore throughout. I have just had thrush - ending the treatment for it now. I did have awful shooting pains through my breast after feeds and that has gone now thankfully.

Maggie - I think I am squeezing the other way - on the sides. I will try your method the next feed. I had been airing my boobs but I got so fed up of having them out all the time so I am back on the jelonet.

The only other thing I can think of is to get a really good pump and express. Would my milk dry up that way though?

Stefka, if I had known about Mumsnet when I was first feeding, i could have written the same posts as you - it's an unbelievably awful experience and it makes you feel dreadful quite apart from the physical pain. I am really feeling for you.

You sound so strong and determined that I'm sure you will get through it. You're not unhelpable - far from it - the fact that you're still going under these circumstances is proof of that.

I'm afraid I've not much specific advice, as it sounds as though you are doing all the right things. The only other thing I would say is to keep asking for professional help, even if it's every day - make yourself a nuisance! You are entitled to it, and in this area ime you can get through a lot of hcp's and counsellors before you find one that really sorts you out. I would try all the breastfeeding orgs as well as the NHS.

One other thing - I think I mentioned this before but just in case - has anyone checked for tongue tie? It's not always immediately obvious from the shape of the tongue, sometimes it only becomes apparent when there are feeding problems. See parenting.ivillage.com/newborn/nbreastfeed/0,,91wd,00.html

Meant to say, would definitely recommend a really good pump. I personally found that the pump seemed to increase my supply - I would think it would be very beneficial from all the things you've said.

But again, I'd recommend that you try to find a counsellor/hcp that you trust and discuss with them if you can.

I am just using the jelonet now and it is only so I can put my bra on. I feel better if I can get dressed and my boobs get knocked when they are out all the time.

Just got through another horrible feed. I totally hate this.

I came on to ask about tongue-tie - just as Kittock says, it's not obvious if you aren't looking for it, and IMO its incidence is seriously underestimated.
When the baby cries, does he/she have a kind of heart shape at the end of the tongue?
If it is this, the good news is that it can be remedied by a really quick snip of the skin under the tongue (by a professional, of course).
I would be really surprised if none of the people who've tried to help you had noticed it, though - but it can be mild and still cause painful latch, depending on factors like the size and shape of your nipples.
All the best.

I will ask the HV when she comes over on Monday about that. I just can't believe I am still dealing with this pain after four weeks - I really thought it would be better by now.

sorry i may have missed this further up the thread but have you tried taking paracetamol before a feed? i know it's impossible to time it precisely but i'd just take some as soon as i woke and keep topping up every 4 hours. i know it's not ideal to be continually medicating but i found it surprisingly helpful at easing pain during a feed. obviously this is only a short term measure to help you get through the feeds while you work on getting to the root of the cracking.

fwiw you sound incredibly dedicated and i'm incredibly impressed with your tenacity. i really hope you make a breakthrough soon.

Stefka - it's fairly easy to diagnose yourself - just look for the frenulum (bit of skin) pulling under the tongue. And the heart-shaped end to the tongue when the baby's crying.
If it is looking likely, come back on and ask about how to get it seen to - in some areas it's easy and in others, people are a bit lazy about recognising it as a feeding problem, it seems. There are some old threads about it as well.

Some pics here

I will take a look when he wakes up. I am currently alternating paracetamol and ibuprofen - not ideal but needs must and all that.

This may sound off the wall but have you tried feeding in the bath? When things were going really badly feeding ds I discovered he fed beautifully in the bath (I guess we were both more relaxed), and it helped get us out of the rut we were in.

More info on tongue-tie here www.tonguetie.net/

May not be relevant but worth investigating.

you poor poor love, i've had thrush and the pain is truly awful, it takes a while after finishing the meds for the pain to go so hopefully the next few days will see a real improvement. was your baby treated at the same time for thrush and what kind of treatment did you both have? just to make sure it is not lingering - i understand that cracks that don't heal can be a sign - the shooting pains come later once it is more established iirc. also, make sure you are sterilising anything you use like nipple shields or they can reinfect you as well.

hang on in there and keep going with the bfc

I don't have any words of practical advice that are the magic solution but I just wanted to say your post made me want to give you a huge hug and say well done! Your post reads like you are giving yourself a really hard time and that can't be helping - viscious circle. You have done and are doing flippin marvellously well to have managed to feed BF for this long, and clearly all the help you have asked for has shown how committed you are. Please be proud of yourself!

I realise I am very lucky in that I BF DS1 and am BF new DD relatively easily so I don't want to come across as smug. All I would say is that there will be things which work for you and your baby - they might not be 'textbook' but if it works, who the hell cares. You say you have tried different positions but don't rule out what works for one breast won't work on the other. Rugby ball position was fine for one side for me but bloody awful on the other.

The other thing I would suggest is watch your caffeine - with DS1 I had what I though was thrush (shooting pains) but turned out to be too much tea and coffee (reduced them but kept the choc up for moral support!)

Also, really stupid question as I am sure you are doing this already - have you tried expressing just before feeding. So in effect the 'tap' is already on before latch on?

Definitely investigate tongue-tie as a possible cause - don't rely on so-called health professionals to even know anything about it. I was at my wits' end and must have begged about 10 different midwives, HVs and doctors for help and none of them had a clue what was wrong. When it was finally diagnosed (at 6 weeks old) it was very easy to get fixed (special clinic at Chester hospital) and was totally painless for DD. Still BF at 10 mo and loving it!

Here is a good link to look at.
www.pumpstation.com/pumpstation/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_id=3229 . They say 1 and 7 which is probably more accurate. Best of luck with it. Hope it gets better.

Stefka I don't have anything else to add to the great advice that already here but I couldn't ignore your post - I think you're a star and such a strong person to get this far. I hope you are able to find a solution that works for you. Thinking of you.

bumping for you, where's hunker?

Tongue tie would be my guess, but it's a guess - has nobody checked for it out of the raft of people you've seen?!

You're amazing to come this far - I'm so sorry it's been a thoroughly miserable time for you so far.

What position are you feeding in? Do you alternate it? Are you using "scissor" fingers to support your breast? A C-shaped support (will post link to show difference in a mo) is a better way to support because it doesn't misshape the nipple.