What else can I try? Really struggling.

[Stefka]

The last three feeds were awful (badly cracked nipples) - I cried all the way through them then cried in between them too because of the pain and the general feeling of total failure that I have right now over this whole BF thing. My LO will be one month on Sunday and I had sad I would give it till then but it looks like there is going to be no amazing break through for me by then. I so badly don't want to give up but I am not coping. Is there anything else I can try?

So far I have tried nipple shields, silverettes, lanisoh, the other one -kamikosan or whatever it is called, a herbal remedy and jelonet. At the moment I am back to using the jelonet as I find it the most soothing in between feeds. I have tried resting one side for a day to give it a break and expressing. I have also had six different people come out to watch me feed - a nct counselor, a midwife who used to be a breast feeding counselor, two breast feeding support workers from the dr's, my health visitor and a woman who runs the local bf support group. They were trying to get me into a specialist clinic but that feel through and I feel totally unhelpable.

Last night I couldn't even sleep because of the thought of the next feed when I woke up. Right now I hate bf even though I want to do it. It is making me completely miserable and I am at a loss as to what to do next.

Anyone got any other ideas for things I can try?

re pump/expressing i have 2 friends who managed well exclusive expressing so it is possible. think generally it isn't recommended as hard to keep supply up/is a pita

have you tried rugby hold? lying down? What does LO do during feeding? is she settled? on and off? fussing?

stefka - i have nothing to add to other posts but i think you have done so well to have kept goign with it all. you obviously are a pretty determined mum. i hope you get it sorted. xoxoxooxoxo

This is what a mean by the 12 and 6 although they say 1 and 7. Apparently it is called the deep latch technique. They say thumb and forefinger but I have previously found that middle finger is better as it does not get in the way of baby trying to latch. It's a bit long winded but worth a shot. Also recommended by Clare Byam-cook How to breastfeed Dvd.

^Extract from www.Pumpstation.com
In order to get milk from the breast, the baby must latch onto the breast. The word "latch" describes the way a baby takes the breast into his/her mouth. The better the latch, the more easily the baby gets mother's milk. The following "deep latch technique" can help your baby feed more easily. It can also prevent damaged and sore nipples. Remember: It's not supposed to hurt to breastfeed. Sore nipples almost always mean your baby needs to be latched on more deeply.

1. Hold your breast with your thumb and index finger on the edge of the areola forming a "C" (football hold), or a "U" (cross cradle hold). Squeeze the finger and thumb toward each other to compress the breast. Keep your fingers off to the side forming "half a sandwich" or just "pinching an inch".

1. When putting the baby to the breast, support your baby's head with one hand, thumb near one ear, third finger near the other ear, with the web of your hand at the nape of your baby's neck. Tip the head slightly backwards by lifting between your baby's shoulder blades with the heel of your hand.

1. With your baby's head tilted back and chin up, lift him or her to touch your nipple. The nipple should rest just above the baby's upper lip. Wait for your baby to open very wide, then "scoop" the breast by placing the lower jaw on first. Now tip your baby's head forward and place the upper jaw well behind your nipple. Keep your thumb pressing down to form the flattened sandwich as you place your baby's upper jaw behind the nipple. The lower jaw will be more deeply positioned then the upper jaw.

1. Wait several seconds, then release your breast. If your baby's nose is buried deeply in the breast, tip the head slightly so you can see your baby's nostril while the nose still touches the breast. There is no need to continue pressing the breast with your thumb.

Tips to remember: All babies have receded chins. If your baby's head drops forward, he/she cannot get the lower jaw correctly positioned deeply under the areola. This results in pinched, sore, blistered, scabbed, nipples and the possibility of poor milk flow. Secondly, the deep latch can be achieved with any position of the baby: "football", "cradle", or "cross-cradle" holds, but it is easier if you sit up straight and use pillows to support you and your baby.^

Thanks for that info - I am a bit confused by the U and C thing. I doing cross cradle - other positions are more painful so sticking with that for now. So what does the U mean - that I hold on either side from underneath?

I had a good look at his tounge but can't see anything. I will ask the HV on Monday though.

According to this site www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_bfpositn_pep.htm
Hold baby in your favoured position and "With your other hand, support your breast with your fingers underneath your breast and your thumb on top (C-hold) or rotate your hand into a U-hold with your fingers and thumb on either side of the breast." Has the squeezing helped at all??

It makes it easier to get him on which really helps. I don't like the anticipation of the pain when I am struggling to get him on. I think it is going to keep hurting until these cracks I have heal up.

Stefka, l really identify with you. My DD is 15 weeks and l have had terrible trouble this time around with mastitus, thrush and cracked nipples. One side has remained un=healed for a few weeks now, l know how terribly depressing the constant pain can be. But l have in the last few days had a lot of success with lansinoh and jelonet used together - l know you too have been using them - but have you tried really putting a good dollop of lansinoh on the cracked nipple and then layering 2-3 squares of jelonet on top with a breast pad to hold it in place - the moist healing approach has really worked for me, l too have been on medication which has just ended for thrush. Good luck. xx

I was advised to stop using the lansinoh for the time being incase my nipples were sensitive to it or something. I am using jelonet - never thought of putting more than one square on though.

How long did it take you to heal? Is feeding ok for you now?

l started on the jelonet monday, added the liberal application of lansinoh from wednesday after a chat with my nct bfc and l saw an improvement within 48 hours, now feeding pain free for the first time and crack across my right nipple has all but gone, just need to be careful with my latch and keep feeding on that side to build the supply up - l still get some after pains after the feed, but thats the thrush, but the actual feed is pain free for the first time. l found the jelonet dried out quite quickly, the lansinoh kept moist which l was told creates a better healing environment for the nipple. l know the lansinoh isn't cheap but for me its well worth it.

I wonder if I should start using it again. I have had so many conflicting bits of advice from people now it is hard to know what to do for the best!

hi stefka, I'm afraid I don't have any practical advice but I just really feel for you. I really hope it gets better for you. It does take a while for things to settle down. I never really got a 'breakthrough', it's been up and down but I am finally enjoying it (see my thread here).

FWIW there were many feeds that I sobbed through. Kellymom is a good breastfeeding resource. It takes a while stefka, but you can do it. And if you don't continue then ou've done a great job up till now. sound like you are doing the right thing by getting lots of help, but is there a bfing group nearby that you can go to. it's a really positive experience to see other people bfing sucessfully and knowing it does get easier, & comforting to see that other women are having similar problems. good luck x

Stefka, I couldn't ignore this either.... It could have been my post, everything you are experiencing happened to me, it took 7 long grueling weeks! I almost gave up many times, but so glad I didn't, 7 months on and I am still bf. My LO has a tounge tie and this may have been the problem (although MV & HV said it would make a difference!

I found that expressing wasn't as painful as BF, so gave expressed milk for a week, to let my nipples heal (LO went back to breast no bother).... cabbage leaves in you bra help a little too!

Do not beat yourself up if you do decide to give up though, you have given your LO the best start... chin up

What treatment did you have for the thrush?

If you only had topical treatment eg creams, you may need a systemic treatment eg fluconazole, as the thrush can be deep in the milk ducts.

Hope things improve for you.

I had the pills to thankfully. The thrush is a lot better now. It's great to hear that people have had similar problems and managed to get through them. I really hope I can too. It's so tiring at the moment. I am doing some expressing too so I can give him a couple of bottles which gives me a bit of a break. It's hard to keep up with him though.

Stefka, l know its confusing, l have tried a little bit of everything trying to find something that worked for us, in the end you probably cannot pin point which thing it was, but keep trying you will get there. Big hug to you.

Good luck with the HV today Stefka.
Let us know how you get on

Stefka, how are things going ? have you tried the lansinoh and jelonet combination ? l like you had tried everything, fluconazole, acidophilus, painkillers, daktarin oral gel for babe, cream for me, washing everything at 60degrees with vinegar, putting muslins and bras in freezer, watching sugar, caffeine and yeast in diet and checking positioning/latch with NCT and LLL BFCs and at baby cafe each week.

Each week l told myself(for about the last 10) if this doesn't get any better l am going to have to give up, but l carried on. The only thing different l have done in the last week is as l said the lansinoh and jelonet together, l had used them before but not in this way together. My cracked nipple was really bad, deep and unhealing, but this approach worked in about 36-48 hours.

I have been using lots of jelonet but had been told to stop using the lanisoh in case I was sensitive to it. I think I will go back to it for a couple of days though and see how I get on. I don't see how it can make things any worse! My nipples are like yours - deep open wounds that won't heal.

I too had a very deep wound on my nipple ( i now have a lovely round scar half the size of my nipple!)thought i had flesh eating disease at one point
I resorted to airing my nipples alot (visitors beware!), lansinoh, cabbage leaves, alternating hot and cold flannels, massage in a hot shower.....it did take 7 weeks and still bf now....it does get easier as you LO gets bigger too... did you find out about tongue tie??
Good luck, and let us know how you get on xx

thinking of you - any better?

The HV had to cancel my last appointment but she will see me tomorrow.

I am finding it easier to cope now that I am giving him two bottles of EBM during the day and it means I only use my worst boob once a day. The latch on that boob doesn't hurt any more but as he sucks on it and the cut opens up it's painful. The other side is not really getting the chance to heal as I am using it every second feed but it has never been as painful as the side I am currently trying to rest. I guess it is just going to take time for them to heal.

Can you use cabbage leaves for cracked nipples? I thought that was for engorgement - I didn't know you could use it for cracked nipples too.

Stefka havent had time to catch up with the whil thread but have you looked at www.kellymom.com/ for advice re cracked nipples, its a very useful site.

I also used Avent silicon nipple sheilds, these really helped as the wound wasn't getting opened every feed. I used these for about 2 weeks.
I think your right re cabbage leaves, I was treating mastitis at the same time! Sorry
I hope things get better for you
xx

Stefka,good to hear you are coping better.