Mighty oaks from little acorns grow - slow weight gain support thread

[FireworksScareMossyPets]

Thread for those of us whose los are:

• Healthy
• Meeting developmental milestones
• Producing plenty of soaking wet nappies
• Producing several pooey nappies (quantity varies after first six weeks or so)
• Gaining weight...

but just much more slowly than the centile charts tell us they should.

This is a thread for help, support and understanding from other Mums who have "been there, done that".

It's where we can share links, share our stories and what if anything we have done to help our lo's weight gain - or whether we've just ditched the scales and looked at the baby.

However, we also don't want to lull other Mums into a false sense of security; if your lo is not meeting the criteria at the top then it is best to get help from a breastfeeding counsellor (or general infant feeding specialist - not all slow gaining babies are breastfed) or supportive health care professional.

Mossy xx

hi guys

hope you don't mind me joining in, but i really need some support as starting to loose confidence on the whole breastfeeding business. DS was born weighing 10lbs 5ozs and was on the 98th centile, at 6 weeks he was only 1 oz over birth weight, he is now 11lbs 15ozs at 10 weeks. HV thinks he's not gaining enough - he started on 98th centile and is now on 25th. He was demand fed until two weeks ago and then i moved to 3 hourly feeds. From birth he has slept at least 6 and a half hours a night, once i moved to 3 hourly feeds (offering both boobs at each feed) he does 9 hours a night. He seems much more content on the 3 hourly feeds but is only gained 4 ozs per week for the last 2 weeks. Basicallly, can his slow weight gain be because he sleeps throught the night - would he not wake if he was hungry? gonna try 2 hourly feeds from tommorow, but really feeling the pressure to introduce formula - anyone got any ideas???

sam x

no idea on the sleeping thru night thing. i thought they needed deep sleep in order to grow????? hopeully other more knowledgeable people will come in on this.

are you pumping? maybe you could pump in the night and feed him the expressed milk as a supplement?

anyway just wanted to extend sympathy, my LO is 8 weeks and only gaining 1 oz/week the pressure to add formula is mounting.....

Welcome littlemiss26

I had the same question about the sleeping through the night. My DD slept for about 9 hours a night from about 2weeks old. I was quite convinced that if she was hungry she would wake up. HV begrudgingly agreed. She started off a lot smaller than your DS and never put on much weight, she's still only weighs 17lbs 6oz at a year!

There is also something called catch down growth, hopefully someone more knowledgable than me will be along to explain it better but, it basically means a baby starts off bigger than it was meant to be (for whatever reason) and then catches down to where they're meant to be.

I think that if DS is sleeping at night and is happy/alert/wet and dirty nappies etc there is no reason to introduce formula.

Btw despite HV advice to introduce formula I stuck to my guns and am still bf DD now!

hello all
been madwoman last week - teething, colds and chest infections at our house - temperatures and much crying at 3 in the morning (dd not mine for once).
Going to see the infant feeding co-ordinator and possibly the paed this week (as well as the gynae urino physio - what fun!).
I feel like King's is my second home sometimes.....
Hello other newbies - how's it all going - the sun is shining and I feel much better about everything

Howdy folks,

Just a quick update. DW just had DD weighed and she's put on 7oz in two weeks, which is pretty much in the normal range for a 20wk old breastfed baby, so we are relatively happy with that. Not quite 10lbs yet, but getting there - as she's 9lb 13oz.

Overall, since seeing the paed, DW and I have been much more relaxed about her dinkiness, though it does still embarrass us at times (we got asked if she was a newborn just the other day - she's nearly 5 MONTHS OLD!). Also there are still the odd conversations we have with parent-friends of ours who can't quite get their head around why we don't formula-feed or ween early, but hey we are just weeks off of the 6 month mark, so we aren't about to bottle it now

Hope everyone else is doing well!

Hi all!

ILD that's good news. Hee, this is the only place where DD is a porker - 11lbs 8oz at 17 weeks. We are positively obese . I know exactly what you mean re the comments though, that is my biggest problem now - I am relaxed re the bf-ing, waiting to wean etc, but then someone says something silly and I feel awful again. We've had the newborn comment lots too. Well we are getting plenty of wear out of her 0-3 clothes, lets look on the bright side.

littlemiss26 hi there how are things? My DD sleeping for longer definitely did coincide with her weight slowing down, but I think it was also in combination with sh1t bf-ing advice from my HV. Our lovely BFC said that we should be looking at about 8 feeds in 24 hrs, so when she slept through I just offered her the chance to feed more regularly during the day. I would just try to feed her on demand and not wait till the 2 or 3hrs is up. I was told on here that some babies can sleep through to conserve energy, so not waking does not necessarily mean that they are not hungry - NOT saying that is the case with your LO, but I think it def applied to mine at that stage. My dd is almost 18 weeks now and for the past month or so has stopped sleeping through anyway! Back to every 3hrs at night, which apparently is common at this stage...zzzzzzzzz

SallyInYorkshire, AngeG, babymutha how are things with you?

soremummy lol at your LO swinging from the curtains!

Meant to say also rascal1979 did you see my other thread on babies doubling their birthweight by a certain age? Your LO has done that already surely, which is fab!!

Hi all
Well have managed to see lots of different gp's and hv's over past few weeks. have had to reluctantly start formula top ups on LO who is still too L!!! (fell thru 9th centile)

think it gives him gas tho, because 1 hour after the bottle (only 4oz) he SCREAMS for a good couple of hours, and refuses the breast so I don't think he is still hungry

the gp yesterday said "you might have to go entirely to formula because it might be that your milk is no good - not calorific enough"

also started domperidone with encouraging results so far.

hi!
one handed typing here but just wanted to say sally iam at your gp

that is such a load of crap

can i suggest you start a new thread on the bf forum re what you were told? you'll get some good advice.

also, have you seen a bfc to check your latch etc? i think that for me dd was poorly latched on for a while=poor milk transfer=drop in supply.

good luck, and your gp is a prat (like mine! )

Thanks Caz (I am sallyinyorkshire but just namechanged because I was bored!)

Have to say I did suspect the GP of talking crap there and so decided to ignore that particular comment! but thought it might amuse MNers!

Good idea re latch, havent had it checked for about a month. Will drop in at baby cafe to chat to their bfc.

Can I come play please?

I've a beautiful 37 week old boy who has decided that charts are for other babies. He weighs in at 13lb and 14oz and has been off the bottom of the charts since he was 23 weeks. He's never been higher than the 2nd centile.

He's usually healthy enough, but is currently suggering from the dreaded change-of-season lurgy so is all a bit sorry for himself. He's usually incredibly appreciative of anything edible that can't get away from him, and drinks from bar-mummy several times a day. He's resisting the 'joys' of water from a beaker, unless of course it's to dribble it in new and interesting patterns over any fabric he can get hold of.

hi sallyinyorks
Could your gp be right??? Surely not! I think its got more to do with actually getting the milk INTO our LOs rather than the milk itself. And even if we have to top up with formula that's no reason to stop bf!!! We're all trying so bleedin hard to make it work because it's better for our babies!!!!!!!

meanwhile....In this neck of south london....After another visit to the breast feeding counsellor I now have a "lactation device" ie - a feeding tube stuck to my nips with the other end in a bottle of formula... not going v well so far - not getting much formula into DD but am getting it all over self, kitchen table, floor, sofa and carpet. hoorah.
however dd has decided that bottles are'nt as bad as she thought and is taking f while asleep and/or drowsy (only 2/3oz but more than with the 'device')
She had dropped below the 2nd last week - we're back to hospital tomorrow... oh joy... bring on the paeds....anyway she seems heavier to me or maybe i'm just tired......?

ALSO - does anyone else on this thread feel like there is milk in dem der mummymounds but their LOs just can't get it all out?? or is it just me.... they don't seem to be empty after a feed.
thanks all
x

Well I went to the baby cafe and there was a bfc and my hv. BFC (v young) went along with what HV (q bossy) said! which was: yes, latch not great but I attach him fine, he then slides down the nipple so he has less breast tissue in his mouth. It's worse when he's sleepy. So he gets less milk. Well I have no argument with any of that. But her solution was: Give him as much formula as he will take then let him go to sleep for a nice long time and when he wakes he will latch better.

Also said not to pit him to breast at same feeding as the formula bottle but to make it a separate feed.

not sure either of the above will be great for my rather fragile supply!

what do you think about this advice guys?

welcome madmuggle

babymutha - hope your hosp visit went ok today - and yes I have the exact same feeling - milk is (or would be) there if only the darned child would drink it!!! I have taken to expressing the hindmilk after feeds to give to LO.

Hi- can I join you? DD is 5 weeks and not yet back to birth weight. Mix-feeding for a week now which has helped a lot.
I'm taking domperidone to try to boost my supply. I agree with you though babymutha- DD has always minced around on the boob, takes an hour to feed, latch fine though. I see other babies gulping away at the breast- she never does that.
Anyway, she wakes, I'd better go.

Welcome e14mum! I am on domperidone too. have you had your dd checked for tongue tie etc?

Yes, we've had her checked for most things
It seems that I have a supply problem. Was really anaemic after the birth, which is one of the only things we can think of that must have affected it. DD is taking her extra milk using a lactation aid (ng tube in bottle) that I am getting on ok with.

hello e14mum and madmuggle - ah the joys!
Well after a very fruitful and interesting visit to king's I discovered I have a heffer of a dd at 12lb2 at 19 weeks!!!! She is out of the paed zone and back on her chart. Wahey. A very interesting discussion with the bfc, who thinks I also have low supply e14, as latch is good and there is no other explanation for continual feeding (hunger), and low weight gain. Supply problems could be due to PCOS (love them ovaries), and also not establishing good lactation from the start in order to fill up my milk producing cells (moving house at 2 weeks old, no kitchen, heat, plaster dust everywhere, stress??.......) Bad news is, I will probably have to supplement until she's weaned as no amount of domperidone, galactagogs, pumping and tears is going to give me enough milk to feed the wee one adequately on my own. Good news is there is no reason it should happen next time round if we manage to conceive another LO, provided I make sure there is proper demand feeding in the early days and we don't move again. And also there is nothing WRONG with my milk (HELL-O Sally's GP!!) there just isn't enough of it.
So the prescription is now: (sally I think this is a good approach for us with fragile supplies maybe suggest to your dhv)-
Feed both breasts then back to first again - to stimulate supply
Supplement with bottle or lactation aid to satisfy hunger
Express to stimulate supply further
When there is enough EBM substitute this for formula at the supplementation stage.
Obviously if I were to do this at EVERY feed I would never leave the house again, but I am going to try and find a balance. Think DD has been much more settled since she decided to take bottles again, even if it's only an oz or 2 each time.

Glad you got on well yesterday babymutha. Your formula sounds a lot like mine, and you're right that if we followed it every feed we'd never leave the house, eat, shower, etc... some days are better than others.

Hello Gang! It's been ages since I posted, so thought I'd drop by. Welcome to the newcomers and their tiny acorns too.

ILD; Sounds like your little biscuit is doing brilliantly, that's wonderful news. I hope your dw is doing OK and feeling good about how well she is doing. I know she was terribly undermined and had her confidence knocked. But I'm afraid you must forfeit your "tiniest acorn" prize, as 9lb 13 at 20 weeks is clearly huge, mate. babycarrot was 9lb 5 at that stage. Pah!

For babymutha, I was reading what you wrote, "...there is no other explanation for continual feeding (hunger), and low weight gain." and little bells rang in my head. There is always the possible explanation that your dd is feeding the way she is hardwired to feed, and growing the way she was always physiologically meant to grow. I've had differing advice on my own dd and been given wildly varying opinions on her slow weight gain, including various theories from bfcs...but the bfc I trust most of any (and I've never me her!) is tiktok. She encouraged me to at least consider that there might not be a problem needing solving, that things, whilst unusual, may be "normal for her". Mind you, Hardly anyone in real life will dare to consider this as an option. It's just not the way people think!

I have no way of knowing about your supply, or my own for that matter, of course, but I invented the concept of milky self-doubt, so I know what it feels like to think one doesn't have enough milk. And I've done the domperidone and expressing and galactogogue and babymooning and co-sleeping and blooming everything (except supplementation). In the end I think I just held my breath and waited for 26 weeks to roll around.

And we're still breastfeeding several times a day and through the night too. Funnily enough, I'm pretty confident that I have plenty of milk these days!

Babycarrot, thanks to her high cal solid diet and open all hours breastaurant, has banged on yet more weight...
1st Feb, 27 weeks old: 9lb 10
23rd April, 39 weeks old; 15lb

Ta da!!!!!

e14mum kudos to you for managing to use lactation aid - for myself I think it would push me over the edge as it seems a right faff compared to bottles. (I couldn't even get on with cup feeding him really).

VLC - milky self-doubt lol...... that is so true.
Also love the "open all hours breastaurant"!!

babymutha - congrats that dd is back on the chart!
Your formula also sounds a lot like mine (including the fact that it's not really poss to do it in the day while out and about!), except at the moment I try and put him back to the breast again for a bit of comfort sucking straight after supplementing, and I pump from the other side at the same time. The idea is:

(1) he will associate that nice full-of-formula feeling with being at the breast and hopefully be less likely to develop preference for bottle
(2) I get more via pump when baby is feeding the other side
(3) baby gets more when I am pumping the other side
(4) it feels more time efficient so I don't feel as annoyed at all the pumping time I am spending away from LO.

I should add nobody has told me to do this - I figured it out for myself by trial and error and consulting breastfeeding websites.

Anyone who is supplementing- please help! I started offering dd extra milk 2 weeks ago. She was still losing weight at this point. So we started offering 1-2oz at every other feed. Gobbled it down, much happier baby. Lovely BFC suggested we follow baby's lead to what she wanted. After 1 week she was demanding extra milk after every feed 1-2oz. Only feed that I could get away with not supplementing was middle of night feed. Now, past couple of days she wants more. 3oz sometimes, 1-2 others. Often have to use bottle as she's too upset to stay at breast and use lac. aid. If I don't offer extra, she will nurse for up to 2 hours... and still cry after I take her off. Is this increase in supplement normal? What else can I do? Will I ever wean her off? She'll be 6wks on Monday and am seriously considering switching to bottles after that as it's getting me so upset...

Oh, and just to add she was weighed last thursday (5 days after starting supplements) and had put on 100g! Still not at birth weight, but will weigh again on tues and see.

So how much extra are you offering over 24hrs in total, and how much is EBM and how much is formula?

Maybe she is having her 6wk growth spurt at the moment?

I think you just have to go with it for the moment and once she is on the right track weight gain-wise for a week or so, then you could start SLOWLY reducing the supplements. I did this too quickly at the start so had to restart formula recently.

We also bought our own baby scales so that we could track exactly what was going on with his weight. You could even weigh her before and after bf to see exactly how much she gets at the breast - although I did not do this as I bought the cheapie scales that are only accurate to 10g. Think you can rent better ones from Medela though.

Various MNers have also been blogging their bf stories with problem weight gain babies - There is a very good one at ourbreastfeedingstory.blogspot.com/ (I forget her MN name)? Mine is at tovaglia.livejournal.com/ but the bf part is friends only so you will have to get a LJ username and leave a comment for me to add you as a friend.

Thanks sally. Today, she's had:
3am bf +2 oz bottle
6am bf (but fell asleep)
9am bf + 3oz lac aid
1pm bf + 3oz lac aid and bottle (and I think would have taken more)
15:45pm bf +2.5 oz lac aid

This was all extra formula, but have 1.5 oz ebm to give her tonight. I don't get on very well with expressing. That's 2 sessions of about 15 min on both sides. Comes out in drips, really.

At this rate I don't feel like she's taking hardly anything from me. But maybe it is a growth spurt.

She is probably taking loads from you! kellymom says that babies over the age of 1 month take an average of 25oz over 24hrs (www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html)

I dont have any experience with LA but have heard that babies can get used to the faster flow they get from this and start getting frustrated with the normal slower flow from the breast, dont know if this might appply to you? maybe ask your bfc?