Today I started to doubt my support for extended BFing

[artichokes]

Before I get flamed let me say that DD is nearly 15 months and still breastfed. I am the only one I know doing this so I looked up a LLL extended BF support group.

DD and I went along and . I was really shocked by the other mothers there and the effect their approach to BF had on their kids.

They were all getting their breasts out the moment their toddlers made a whimper. Not trying to distract them or find out what was wrong, no real attempts at communication, just an immediate offer of the breast and an arrogant assumption that this made then superior mothers. As a result of this none of the toddlers were at all sociable. DD was the only one who seemed interested in the external environment. The BF toddlers seemed to have a very insular relationship with their mothers and their breasts.

Now if DD gets upset I try and understand the problem. When she was newborn I at this age I think it is unhealthy to teach her that oral comfort is always the answer and I think it misses a chance to communicate with her and find out what she is reacting to. It would be very easy for me to offer the breast at every murmur, I would spend a lot more time mumsnetting for a start. But that would be about me not her.

TBH this meeting has made me question how healthy extended BFing is. Does anyone else understand what is concerning me?

Artichokes - I think you may be missing something here. Quite often when DD is upset, I am the only person who can see that she is about to dissolve into tears. We don't have to talk, I just know to hold out my arms and she climbs up and gives me a cuddle and if she wants one, she'll have a feed. There is little or no point having a conversation about it, why draw attention to the fact that she is upset and embarrass her (and yes it does embarrass kids sometimes if their mums make a huge fuss or interrogate them on 'what's wrong' - esp. as sometimes they don't know why they are upset, but just are).

You don't know the internal dynamics between these kids and their mums.

Mums groups generally do foster insular thought and forthright comments, generally I find you can expect people to about double the strength of their opinions because they are a herd trying to protect their own. (I'm not calling anyone a cow okay!?)

I've not gone to one mums group without thinking 'sheesh these people need to go out into the world and widen their focus a tad' but really, what common ground do you have if you don't talk about parenting? I bet they were bolshy. They probably feel persecuted on a daily basis.

Personally I don't. If someone doesn't approve of me breastfeeding my daughter, sod them. It's their problem not mine.

I maintain a neutral view on however people decide to feed their kids and when they decide to do it. These people clearly didn't impress you, but individually I bet they are all really nice and have good things going for them (just like you) - they've clearly got some determination and interest in their kids best interests to be bfing for this long.

moo
yes that's right I hadn't thought of that:
as wmmc says, older children may well be making s sign or even asking for a feed.
dd1 used to say "more"
dd2 says "bo"
both of them do a littlehand signal/facial gesture
to other people this might seem all rather mysterious and secretive, but it isn't really.
tbh I admit I am defensive.
there is sooooo much negativity about feeding a toddler I honestly think we can do without adding to it
imo

oh bloody hell, I really shouldn't read this thread...
is there really any need to invite negative bitchy comment about not wanting a walking, talking child to ask for a bfhow extended bf are just inadequate mothers with no other parenting skills.
honestly, I have heard it all before.

ds self weaned at 22 months and our experience of extended bf was completely different than what you describe. I think you have just met some odd women

Sorry harpsi - wasn't intending to be bitchy. OP was inviting MNetters to agree with her and I do - though it would appear I am the only one brave enough to do so. More fool me ... I am actually very pro breast feeding (indeed many would call me an extended breast feeder since I kept it up for 16 months or so in France - which isn't exactly big on breast feeding), but I think you need to know when to call it a day and I think the kind of situation artichoke is describing where you have young children (not babies) being offered a boob to shut them up is a bit too Little Britain for my liking (there - I've mentioned it - cue howls of outrage).

There is nothing odd or wrong about wanting to feed your toddler on demand

there is nothing odd or wrong about feeding a walking talking child

there is nothing odd or wrong about choosing to comfort a breastfed child by picking them up and breastfeeding them - nothing wrong to have this as your default option - nothing wrong to do this without thinking or without consulting the child or checking to see if you could comfort them in some other way

you are saying you don't think there is anything wrong with breastfeeding an older child, but your feelings about it show differently IMO

would you think it odd to see a mother pick her child up and cuddle it if the child was upset? Would you think it odd if the child could walk and talk and ask for a cuddle? Would you think it odd or wrong if the mother didn't consult the child first and ASK if they wanted a cuddle? Would you think it wrong if this was the mother's default option, that is, if she nearly ALWAYS gave cuddles if her child was upset? Would you think it odd or wrong if she picked up her upset child and reassured them with a cuddle without even stopping her conversation or even apparently noticing what she was doing?

No. I don't think you would. And there is no reason why the same shouldn't apply for breastfeeding as well. Breastfeeding, and cuddles, are good, healthy things for children to have. They can have lots of them. They can have loads of them. They can have them whenever they want or need them or whenever the mother thinks it might help. And the only reason you are distinguishing between breastfeeding and cuddles IMO is that some part of you thinks that breastfeeding is NOT healthy and normal and really no fkn big deal. Just like a cuddle.

I hope to be cuddling my children until the day I die - I wouldn't like to say the same about breast feeding - I think there is a difference.

"As your child wasn't bf then I would think that is why they would be comforted by a cuddle, a bf child would (probably) be more comforted by a bf rather than a cuddle."

I disagree - I was a "semi" extended BF'er with DS1 (until he was 14 1/2 months). And he learnt quite early (about 9ish months IIRC) that a cuddle was just as comforting as a breastfeed if he was upset (obviously if he was hungry that was a different matter obviously).

Beautiful put FrannyandGreenychordCarrier

My 14 month old DD who has been independantly walking since 10 months old and signed 'Milk' for the first time at 5 months old. Should I have stopped feeding her at 5 months or 10 months, as to not upset people like you.

Luckily for her I no longer care what other people think and she is demand fed both inside and outside the home.

TBH the more I read comments the more I wonder what kind of issues the OP has with extended breastfeeding.

""As your child wasn't bf then I would think that is why they would be comforted by a cuddle, a bf child would (probably) be more comforted by a bf rather than a cuddle.""

BabyDragon is more than happy with a cuddle if it's comfort she wants rather than feeding.

Harpsi, I really like your posts but I think you may be feeling got at here when LilianGish was actually very specific about the issue she was concerned about. She was anxious not to fall into the particular pattern she felt this woman had fallen into, hence her decision to stop at the walking/talking stage. Presumably we all have our own internal cut-offs and this was hers. I guess you have yours unless your dc makes the decision first.

FWIW I went back to work and my own personal cut-off was that I was NOT going to express at work. Once that decision was made, supply dropped off and dd got bored with bf so we stopped at 8 months.

So that was my cut off. Just my personal level of comfort with horrid, horrid (to me) pumps!

I think the best way to promote extended bf is to recognise the limits Artichokes and Lilian felt they could go to, and if there's any way around them, help them. Otherwise, we can surely support them in their personal feelings that that is their "thus far and no further" point. Not yours - just theirs.

I think you are communicating with people who are very pro bfing and I'm very impressed with the number of people who keep it going so long. It's quite an achievement. And after all Artichokes went out of her way to go to a club about extended bf. She wanted to carry on but was surprised by her feelings about what she found there.

I doubt you'd find anyone on here who doesn't think you're doing a great job to have got so far with bf...

But why go to an extended breastfeeding group, if you are not happy with walking, talking children nursing ?

It is like an alcoholic going to the local pub and being cross as people are drinking beer.

What else will be happening at an LLL extended breastfeeding support group except mums talking about and actually nursing their older children ?

OK maybe daft question of the year coming up now but..........

Why do people do extended bf'ing - is it for the health benefits or something else?

when posters start mentioning little britain then 'extended' bfers do feel GOT AT. insulted and angry in my case.

No it was Lilian who didn't want to go beyond the walking/talking stage - she didn't go to the club - Artichokes did.

Artichokes was surprised that she felt alienated somewhere she deliberately sought out in order to feel at home when she knows some people are uncomfortable with extended bf (sorry, too many clauses).

You go to somewhere hoping to feel part of the tribe and you actually feel outside of it and that's sometimes concerning/surprising.

Surely we all know what it's like to encounter smug mums in any field of parenting? That's all she was saying.

For me I breastfeed my 14 month old because :-

: DD likes nursing for food and comfort
: Health benefits for both her and me
: Makes me more relaxed when we nurse
: No faffing with bottles etc
: Never runs out.
: She reacts to me drinking cows milk, so I wouldn't swap to that.
: Too stingy to buy cow milk formula when I make better stuff for free

Also I can't think of one benefit to stopping

I am breastfeeding my 3 year old because he wants/needs to. It's that simple

i feed my son because he loves it and it is good for both of us and makes us happy. i am sad and cross that ignorant people find this something worthy of criticism. should we stop using nappies at some arbitrary age? all pushchairs to be banned at 2 because they can walk by themselves?

BabiesEverywhere - altjhough M&J has just explained this I must reiterate that it was not me who said that I was uncomfortable with walking, talking children breastfeeding. DD is talking and (nearly) walking and I BF.

My OP was not questionning the decision to keep breastfeeding. I support BFing until whatever age is right for mother and child. What I was questionning was the approach I had witnesses which I thought was putting BF before all other mothering qualities

I went to LLL because I am the only person I know who is still BFing a 15 monther. It turns out that meeting the other extended BFers who were there was not the positive experience I had hoped. So I then turned to mumsnet to see if I was unique in my appraoch or if others agreed with me. It turns out that some people found my enquiry quite offensive. I did not set out to offend.

it seems a philosophical difference of opinion. each to their own might be the best approach. ds1 and ds2 were bf til 9 and 14 months but in a vague routine once past the newborn stage and I wouldn't have bf outside that unless they hurt themselves or it was very hot for example. dd1 is only 7 months but I've been feeding her quite differently, totally on demand, a lot through the night, no real routine and I can easily see her being like the children you described at the lll meeting. I'm not sure if i've changed or it's just dd is leading the bf a different way. so don't feel unique (ie alone) in the way you bf but also try not to judge those of us who do things differently (could be you next time round )

Now there's a question QoQ!

I am still feeding ds at 2 1/2 because he still wants it, and very much needs it. I do use it as a default comfort option (sometimes he says he doesn't want it). He is just not ready to stop yet and that's what it comes down to really. I think any attempt to stop at the moment would be very distressing for both of us.

I think that in a LLL group situation women should feel comfortable enough to feed their children as they would at home; and would expect that they may easily want to feed more, given that the situation may not be familiar to the children. Also sometimes there isn't much dialogue, you just anticipate the need.

IME it is nice to have ds snuggled up on my lap having a feed if he doesn't want to go and play, while I get a much welcomed opportunity to chat to other mums.

Artichokes - just wanted to say I understood your OP. Perceived smugness (real or not) is alienating and infuriating; also disappointing when it comes from ppl you'd thought you'd click with.

When DS was 2 months old I went to a homebirth postnatal group as I thought that I would meet like-minded mothers, as I had had a homebirth myself. I stumbled into a discussion about the evils of vaccination (which made me feel particularly awful as DS had just had his first set of jabs). It just seemed so extreme, and I just didn't seem lentil-weavery enough. And it was the first time I had seen an older baby bf too, so that was surprising for me (not shocking tho, just different).

However... I went to the group a few more times and have formed a really close friendship with one of the mums and also know quite a few of the others to socialise with. They are perfectly nice women, but if I had based my opinions on that first meeting, I would have missed out.

To throw my own 'extended bf' hat into the ring, DS is 15 months and feeds mostly first thing in the morning and last thing at night. And sometimes at 4am, and sometimes in the afternoon if we're at home etc, he leads the way. He is quite happy to be comforted with a cuddle if he is upset.

Thanks MandJ - for being the voice of reason. I won't be sticking my head over the parapet again.