Today I started to doubt my support for extended BFing

[artichokes]

Before I get flamed let me say that DD is nearly 15 months and still breastfed. I am the only one I know doing this so I looked up a LLL extended BF support group.

DD and I went along and . I was really shocked by the other mothers there and the effect their approach to BF had on their kids.

They were all getting their breasts out the moment their toddlers made a whimper. Not trying to distract them or find out what was wrong, no real attempts at communication, just an immediate offer of the breast and an arrogant assumption that this made then superior mothers. As a result of this none of the toddlers were at all sociable. DD was the only one who seemed interested in the external environment. The BF toddlers seemed to have a very insular relationship with their mothers and their breasts.

Now if DD gets upset I try and understand the problem. When she was newborn I at this age I think it is unhealthy to teach her that oral comfort is always the answer and I think it misses a chance to communicate with her and find out what she is reacting to. It would be very easy for me to offer the breast at every murmur, I would spend a lot more time mumsnetting for a start. But that would be about me not her.

TBH this meeting has made me question how healthy extended BFing is. Does anyone else understand what is concerning me?

I don't really see why you feel you have to "support" extended bf or judge it in any way.
why don't you just feed your own baby and let other people get on with feeding their's?
you know - tolerance, understanding, minding your own business.
and how on earth can anyone judge all bf on the basis of such a small group?
it tells you dick all about my experience. or my friends' experiences. or anyone I know.
it tells you about themor tbh much more about your own bias, prejudice and tendency to judge.

Maybe they felt they had to whip their norks out or else get expelled from the group!

Sorry, flippant!

snickers I think we were mostly agreeing, there was just a couple of things I had a different opinion about

and an arrogant assumption that this made then superior mothers'

how on earth do you know what was going on in their heads? the only person doing any assuming is you! you have assumed they were arrogant, and that they were feeling superior.

artichokes, yes I completely see where your OP was coming from, but on this site, you are a brave woman to say it. There are also other reasons why I felt it would not have been a good thing for my children, but I'm not even going to go there, because of the wrath of the extended b'feeders.

I think artichokes' original post was an interesting observation and she's obviously quite happy about bf so I don't think she deserved the tone of some of the responses.

There's no need for the "you're either with us or your against us" mentality. She's an extended bf-er herself but is open to questioning about it.

How very reasonable.

BabyDragon is 20 months, breastfed and perhaps rather too sociable for her own good. However, I (personally) don't believe she needs to be demand fed at this age so she has 3 feeds - when she wakes at 4am [sigh], before nap time and at bedtime. Not that she needs it to go to sleep, they've just lovely snuggly times. And convenient.

I do, in part, agree with the OP. That is not my "thing" at all. OTOH, it's none of my business. Not all extended bf-ing has to be like that and I would hazard a guess that "that sort" is in the minority. You'd never know that BabyDragon was still breastfed.

Thank you Margo and Jerry and Nightynight.

Harpsichord and Sherazade - I do think you are being very harsh and reactionary. For a start nothing in my OP states that all extended BFers are the same. I was observing one group and asking for other's opinions and experiences.

You ask how I know they felt superior. We did not sit in silence. They spoke alot about their feelings about extended BFing. I heard their views and their very strong opinions on FF and mixed feeding.

You say I am judging. This site is about sharing views and thoughts on motherhood. i think that is what I was doing. You are judging me in your posts but telling me off for judging others.

Only read the op.
So far.

I am still bf dd. She is 2.2 yrs.

I knew from the start that I wanted to bf her for a lengthy time. I didn't manage that with ds.

But I knew that I didn't want to bf like the women in the op. I knew that I didn't want bm to be dd's only form of comfort.
From about 1 ish I only fed her at 'meal' and snack times times and bedtimes etc. Rather than every time she fell or cried or was tired etc. I didn't want it to be the only thing that could make her 'better'. I introduced a 'loopy' that she has at night and did other things to comfort her.

It doesn't concern me what other mums do , but it was not for me to BF that way.

Sorry not read many replies...

"They were all getting their breasts out the moment their toddlers made a whimper. Not trying to distract them or find out what was wrong, no real attempts at communication, just an immediate offer of the breast"
Maybe they all wanted to hear the discussion rather than miss anything? I know my first instinct would be to want to settle my DS as quickly and as easily as possible if there was something I really needed/wanted to listen to....doesn't necessarily mean I do that all the time. Difficult to know everything about a person's parenting style from one 2 hour session outside of their home environment imo.

"... and an arrogant assumption that this made then superior mothers."
I'm curious to know how they showed this artichokes?

LLL's mantra about meetings is to "Take what you need and leave the rest" which I think is an excellent thing to keep in mind when faced with ideas etc that you don't necessarily agree with.

artichokes, on the contrary you state that your experience of watching a group of other mothers bf for a short period of time - a tiny snap shot - has made you "doubt your support" for extended bf and "question how healthy extended bf is".
you are making a sweeping judgement based on a your own interpretaion of the behviour of children and their mothers. how on earth you got from this they consdiered themslves to be superior mothers I really don't know.
this group isn't for you, clearly. just don't go back, but don't start making sweeping statements based on, frankly, dick all.

"dick all" is such a fabulous phrase

1. Extended breastfeeding is very healthy.

2. You didn't like one LLL extended BF support group (Though I feel more for the other mums at this group, who assumed that this was one place that their extended nursing would not be judged)

These are two seperate issues.

Judge the group as you like, it doesn't change the first fact.

I fed ds1 until he was nearly 3. For a long time, can't quite remember how long, he only fed twice a day, or later once a day, in bed. With the notable exception of LLL meetings. Not because I wanted to prove anything about my mothering, but because there was no chance of him listening to people talking about feeding for an hour and a half without wanting to be fed himself.

Harpsi - "doubting" and "questionning" are both verbs that express uncertainty. A judgement is making a clear call on something. The quotes you use against me illustrate my point that I was using a parenting site to seek opinions in an area where I had yet to make a firm judgement.

Obviously I didnt meet this group of women at LLL so I dont know but...when browsing or talking to people about breastfeeding its quite common for women to be described as arrogant or militant or showing off in some way when they breastfeed older children. (I read something recently in a newspaper about women who breastfeed in public and "stare" in a hostile way at anyone sho looks at them.) Although I've never really seen this attitude myself, I wonder if it might be something to do with expecting criticism and so heading it off by being a bit bolshy...
For myself, I am finding it more difficult to feed in public-admittedly becaues I think people will disapprove as my ds gets older (he's 12 months now and I'll go on as long as I can with bf). I am aware that i'm starting tobe in a miority. I have already had my mil commenting that its not "nice" so I dont feel comfortable around her. I definitely feed more in public if I think I am with like-minded people.

I think that's exactly what's happening on this thread tbh - being a "bit bolshy" because people are expecting criticism.

But actually no one is criticising. Artichokes is just saying she found an environment which she thought she would find very comfortable actually quite alien.

She was probably looking for reassurance that not all extended bf is like that and that it can be very simple and easy and not loaded with baggage.

I don't think it helps anyone's cause to be so forceful about it tbh, especially when you are talking to friend, not foe. I'd save the ire for people who don't support bf in any context.

Margoandjerry you are very wise I think.

You are indeed a wise woman M&J.

artichokes, would you mind answering my question from last night (22.31)? I'm genuinely interested at to what the scenario was. I promise I will not lay into you!

Of course PW.

It was somewhere in the middle of the two scenarios you describe. In one case small child entered room holding mummy's hand, small child does not want to go and play, mummy says "look at lovely toys", small child whimpers and declines to look at lovely toys, small child is given breast.

In another case small child said she wanted to go home and was immediatly put on the breast.

In a third case small child had a small fight with my DD over a toy and got a little upset (not screaming but crying). She was picked up and given the breast without a word being said to her.

i have to admit i have found myself recently being critical of other people who wear slings...for seeming smug about it etc, really possibly because i'm new to all this and there are so many different ways to do things, and its easy to feel insecure. i've got him in the sling now because he's upset and i'm wondering if i'm doing the wrong thing....similar with bf i think, but it should never be underestimated how extended bf is in a minority tho, esp outside more bohemian areas of london. get far more looks in yorkshire and comments that i am giving him what he wants...as if that isa bad thing. aanyway rambling now, sorry

well artichoke my suggestion is that you don't move to a firm judgement because you have seen three isolated examples that you didn't approve of.
so what?
I mean, judge if you like but really, honestly I can't see it means anything about extended bf.
I saw on the tv the other day a woman force feeding a baby with formula until the baby was sick.
to overfeed the baby so the baby would sleep longer.
from this, I could move to say:
I am beginning to question whether bottlefeeding is such a good idea. I think bottlefeeders overfeed their babies and forcefeed them, because I saw one woman doing that.
ridiculous, isn't it? and offensive.

Artichokes, I understand your concerns entirely and I think you are a brave woman to air them here! I breast fed both my children until about 16 months (can't remember precisely) - I should add neither was walking at that stage and neither were they talking. I was determined that I would stop before either of them could walk up to me and demand a breast feed (much as I enjoyed it). While I fully accept that not all extended breast feeders fall into the category you describe I think it is true to say that some do and I have known one in particular. The phrase "an immediate offer of the breast and an arrogant assumption that this made them superior mothers" just about sums her up and in her case it was the only child calming measure she possessed.