Baby won’t stay latched on

[lavenderchocolate]

He is three days old, and although I have milk it’s incredibly difficult as he just won’t stay latched on. He works himself into such distress, it’s awful to see. At night he won’t go on at all. I’m now trying to express milk for him but I’m not sure if I’ve messed up. When I first used the breast pump earlier today I got quite a lot out but now not much. I’m guessing I should leave it for a while? I’m so upset, I have milk, I have a baby who clearly wants to breastfeed but we just can’t.

@lavenderchocolate you are doing really well! Congratulations on your little one . My little lady was born in May and had a posterior to tongue tie. She struggles with the most common breast feeding positions until we saw a breastfeeding consultant (who also assessed and snipped the tongue tie). She recommended a hold called the koala hold and popping the baby to the each breast 3 times per feed ( we started referring to these as her rounds at the booby bar). We have managed to keep feeding with some formula top up offered after a feed and she is now 7 months old. I hope you can find someone to see you in person to do the assessment and give you some Advil, my DD was born in the first lockdown and at that time no one would see us till she was about 7 weeks old.

Regarding the breast pump, it might be worth seeing if you can get a pumping bra to save you holding the things in place.

@lavenderchocolate I also really recommend the haakaa. You just attach to your breast with suction and it catches let down while you pump the other one. Very cheap on Amazon.

Do call the GP, but most of them know very little about breastfeeding so the thing you need to ask for is the specialist breastfeeding support service - here we have one run by an IBCLC with tongue tie expertise, but it varies a lot depending where you are, unfortunately. So if you can afford it do contact a private IBCLC as well.

Until then, the advice on getting a deep latch (flipple and laid back breastfeeding) is good, but it is hard to do when you’re tired and worried so if your partner is supportive it can really help if they do the research into latching and positioning and then help you. My DH got very good at it

GP was never involved with my babies tongue tie. I went to our local feeding support group or your health visitor should be able to refer you to your hospitals infant feeding team who can assess. Sure the GP could refer you too but like someone else said above they sometimes know nothing about feeding!

We have a private appointment for this evening! I will update - I just pray it is the breakthrough he needs.

Ooh, fingers crossed for you, OP. I have seen immediate good latches with a simple change in positioning fairly often, though of course it’s not always that simple, but here’s hoping it works that way for you.

How did it go OP?

Hi, he is still struggling

I don’t really know what else to do! Expressing is killing me.

Op, I combination fed ds from a few weeks old. I bf him for nearly a year that way, and it was the best thing for both of us. What worked well for me was rugby ball hold, and almost lowering my nipple into his mouth. And I literally didn't leave my bed or the sofa for the first couple of weeks. He was permanently stuck to me, and any time he opened his mouth i basically shoved a nipple in it! Whether he was giving feeding cues or not. But when I was exhausted he got formula instead and he did fine. Hes a rough tough nearly 3 year old now.

I mean this as kindly as possible, you want to do the best for your baby, I completely understand that. But you need to take care of you too, physically and mentally. Ask your mw, health visitors for support, and make sure you do reach out to the likes of la leche league. But don't break yourself over this. Know that choosing formula for some or all feeds is not a failure. Happy healthy mum and happy healthy baby, thats all that matters. How you get there is your choice.

I know. But it isn’t my choice. That choice was always to breastfeed my baby and I can’t.

I needed a nipple shield as my dd was putting my nipple under her tongue. The nurses kept latching her on and walking off. I had to insist quite strongly that they stayed and watched. When they eventually realised what was happening, the little plastic nipple shield solved the problem.

Op, my heart is breaking for you, its so bloody hard. I sobbed and sobbed when dh gave ds formula for the first time. I know your choice is to breastfeed, and I am not for one second suggesting you give that up. I'm just trying to encourage you to be open to other options and not be too hard on yourself.

Consider trying nipple shields, ds got on quite well with them. And ultimately, keep trying. We learn through repetition. Stick the nipple in his mouth whenever you can. I sometimes even shoved it in and wiggled it about a little like you might do with a bottle teat. If he comes off, stick him back on, repeat and repeat. Give him to dad to walk around and calm him for a few minutes and then try again. Skin to skin to keep him calm, talk to him soothingly, lots and lots of cuddles. Breastfeeding is 70% determination i think.

I can’t keep trying. It’s reprehensible of me to do something to hurt him.

I’ll just express.

@lavenderchocolate I’m so sorry you’re having such a tough time, it’s heartbreaking. You are doing the best for your boy and I’m sending you a massive hug.

Did you see the tongue tie practitioner? What did they say?

Your story sounds very similar to mine, except my baby would never latch despite having a tongue tie cut and seeking help from specialist midwives, health visitors and lactation consultants. I ended up making the decision to exclusively pump. The first few weeks were difficult, pumping would only produce small amounts, I remember struggling to get 40ml in one session. I have used a hospital grade pump, I know you have said you have your own but if this is the route you are ending up taking, maybe it is worth renting a hospital grade one. Some NHS trusts rent them, or nct, if not then you can rent them from companies, I would recommend medela. It does get easier, I am now 9 weeks in and the most I have produced is just over 400ml in one session. I found that at week 7/8 my milk was well established. It is possible to increase milk supply. I do try and eat a lot of oats, and have oat milk, also I have been drinking the pukka tea for breast feeding. The breast compressions whilst pumping definitely help getting all the milk out and I have always double pumped as it saves time and is meant to increase yield.
If you have any questions about exclusively pumping, feel free to PM me. Just remember, whatever happens, you are doing an amazing job.

Thank you, both. Milcd that does sound similar to what’s happening here. He WANTS to latch on, he is desperate to do so, but he can’t, I think this is partly to do with the positioning of my nipple which points down rather than being at the top of my breast, and then also having an extremely swollen stomach still from c section. I’ve tried rolling a towel and a Muslim and putting under my breast to elevate it but it hasn’t worked. Actually nothing has worked so if I say it here I tried and nothing happened!

I rugby ball him on my right and he can sometimes latch for short periods although he hasn’t tonight. I have to admit though I’m scared to try now. If just seems all sorts of wrong to do something you know will hurt your baby.

The tongue tie was cut by a lactation consultant, she did give me some tips but none of them work. I honestly don’t know how anyone can do some of them without six pairs of hands.

I am expressing milk however and I have an electric double pump. The huge problem with this is as I’m sure people can appreciate is that I don’t make a surplus in fact I make less than needed. So for instance ds is next due a feed at 6 (obviously if he wakes before then he’ll have one) I have 30 ml of breast milk. So he would have 30 ml breast milk 30 ml formula. But then if he is hungry again an hour later I have to give him formula. Because I can’t just stick him on my breast. It also means I’m chained to the house for the foreseeable which isn’t a problem at the moment but it would be nice to think I could actually do some things with baby.

On one level I know it doesn’t matter. I know I’d say happy mum and happy baby to one of my friends, but on a deeper and rawer level than that I just feel so sad and to be honest embarrassed and frustrated, my body isn’t doing what it should be, and it’s harming my beloved baby.

Have you tried a nipple shield? One of my nipples doesn't come out enough for baby to latch on. I used the medela shield which is really thin silicon and DD latched on well it would help pull it out! I used it for few weeks until we both got the hang off BF.
Sorry if this has been mentioned.
Worth a try though.

It is worth a try thank you. Is there any brand that’s better? I read that nipple shields weren’t really recommended but since he isn’t feeding from the breast anyway I can’t see that it matters!

I don’t have particularly sore nipples though, I’m fine in that respect. Do they help babies latch on?

@lavenderchocolate my little girl will only latch with a shield - i have the medela ones. I don’t have sore nipples either but they do help.

@lavenderchocolate I found medela ones the best as they were so thin. It helps draw the nipple out so they have more to latch on. Amazon have them, and boots did if you can call in.

Op I know you're getting lots of good advice. I know it's an emotionally loaded subject. I've noticed two things you've said.1, I'm not sure putting your baby on the breast can be hurting him?! 2. If you end up formula feeding, that won't be harming him. You've given him the best start you can by giving him colostrum. Whatever happens from hereon. I hope shields help but if they don't then you know you've tried everything, and if you end up formula feeding then that's absolutely fine. That's what it's there for. Millions of babies are bought up on formula. I was. Both mine were after 5m and 4wks, for different reasons. I still feel sad about it on some level but they're healthy and bright kids.

On one level I know it doesn’t matter. I know I’d say happy mum and happy baby to one of my friends, but on a deeper and rawer level than that I just feel so sad and to be honest embarrassed and frustrated, my body isn’t doing what it should be, and it’s harming my beloved baby.

I empathise with this so much - I always said it didn’t matter if I couldn’t breastfeed but when that at actually happened I was devastated and felt so guilty. It felt like the most important thing in the world at the time, which is why I kept pumping for so long and so often. All I had was some people saying why was I bothering, and others saying I hadn’t tried hard enough to feed him - definitely no one understood how hard pumping was.

I would ask for a follow up call / Zoom with the IBCLC and tell her how much you’re struggling still and can’t do the things she suggested.

Your body isn’t failing or harming your baby - it’s just a complex thing for some mums and babies. I know many EBFing mums who say things got easier with latching as their have got bigger, but obviously that ideally means you’ll pump as much as possible until then. There are several pumping bras on Amazon with next day delivery - that will help you to still do things while pumping. Pumping won’t have to be this frequent longterm (well it was for me but that’s a long complicated story) - once your supply is established you will be able to cut down.

Do you have a partner and any chance they’re off over Christmas? If so this is a good opportunity for you to pump whenever your baby feeds, which will boost your supply - these times where they are feeding more often is what increases your supply.

I asked earlier whether your pump has variable speed and suction - using the technique I mentioned upthread where you start fast and low suction then switch to slow and high suction really increased my supply.

I know it’s heartbreaking and you feel so many crappy things right now. If you don’t want to keep going, it’s okay - pumping is so hard while taking care of a newborn too. I understand though that you probably don’t want to stop and that’s okay too. You will adjust to it.

If your nipple is pointing down you may find the laid back feeding position helps. Breastfeeding can involve a lot more boob manhandling than we realise too, especially with small babies.

I know how desperate it feels when you just can’t get things to work. It massively affected my mental health and I became quite obsessive (tracking pumping volumes and feeds in an app, as well as every nappy change). Felt like I was always pumping or feeding or washing up ready to pump again. So I understand what you’re feeling now and your feelings are valid. It’s awful when you just can’t make it work. I would definitely try calling the National breastfeeding helpline, and more IBCLC support if you can afford it -did they watch a feed, adjust positioning and attachment etc, or did they mainly just come for a tongue tie? I’m friends with an IBCLC who says many of her seasons involve just small changes to these things which make all the difference.

Everything SinkGirl said. And if the IBCLC couldn’t get him latched, then maybe you need to meet in person and try again - the one I know will spend as long as it takes supporting women to try lots of different positions etc, did the one you used do that? Or try an online LLL meeting - there’s one most days and at the very least they will listen kindly, sympathise and offer virtual tissues, and the best of them will have some really good expertise and people who’ve been through what you’re experiencing.

OP, your posts have really got to me - you sound so much like I did four years ago and I feel so sad for you.

I’ve spoken to my friend who’s a brilliant IBCLC and I would like to gift you a zoom consultation with her if you’d like one. If anyone can help, whether that’s with latching or pumping (she’s been there!) or coming up with a plan, I know she can. And no expectations from from me if it doesn’t work out - I just want to give you a chance I didn’t have.

Please send me an inbox message if you’d like to take me up on it and I’ll put you in touch with her.

Oh sink that would be wonderful but you must let me pay properly.

The problem with a lot of the different positions is they are well and good with four pairs of hands but not with two. And I am starting to feel that it is very cruel to force a baby to breastfeed with breasts that aren’t up to it, it’s like expecting me to climb the side of a wall without giving me a ladder. He gets frustrated and upset and that isn’t his temperament, he’s a very calm, cuddly, snuggly baby. The only time he cries is when I try to breastfeed him!

I’ll order some nipple shields now, bringing the total spent on breastfeeding £400 - makes a bit of a mockery of my claims that breastfeeding is cheaper!