For Minkyjj - more about better bf!!

[tiktok]

Am starting a new topic, as the board won't take my response to your question, for some reason, Minkyjj. The system just 'sticks'.

Hope NCT got back to you by now.

I diagree with some of the reassurance here (I am an NCT bfc). I think you are right to be concerned. It is not normal for a baby to be grouchy and grumpy all the time, and green poo can be a sign that bf can be fixed to make thiongs go better (green poo can also mean nothing, BTW, but coupled with the slow weight gain and grumpiness, it does add up to a situation that needs some attention).

It may be your dd is not feeding effectively, maybe because she needs to be positioned at the breast in such a way to get a good mouthful and stimulate a good let down and a good supply. This also ensures the baby gets the creamier milk (hindmilk) - the milk gets creamier and creamier as the feed progresses, which satisfies the baby and helps the baby grow.

A bfc can give you info on this, and help you decide how to position the baby.

Feeding often, and effectively, is the best way to ensure a happy baby, nice yellow poos, and appropriate weight gain.

Hope this helps - I can't see any benefit in expressing before you feed, BTW, not sure why that's been suggested : )

Good luck, and try the NCT line again if you need to.

tiktok - I think you'll find that Sofiaames suggested expressing a little milk if the breasts were engorged, as this allows the baby to get a good latch on the nipple. I know that you are a bf counsellor, but this seems good advice to me, and my hv suggested it when I was in the same boat

Minkyjj - Another thing that I would suggest is a pack of Avent breast shells. You wear them for a maximum of 45 mins, and they allow a little bit of milk to be taken off, which stops the breast getting too engorged. You can store the milk for later if you want. I found that these were great, although I only needed them for the first few days after my milk came in, as I was never exactly overflowing with milk. If you are finding that you have too much between feeds, they may help.

I also thought it was good advice. If you express a little the baby will be able to get straight to the hindmilk.

But there is nothing wrong with foremilk....happily, effectively feeding, well-attached babies don't need 'help' to 'reach' the hindmilk. The baby's effective sucking induces a let down which is the first of several during the feed.....then as more milk is removed, the milk gets creamier. Expressing before the baby comes to the breast removes some of the foremilk (not necessary - the baby needs that as well) and may or may not get a single let down working. If the baby is still ineffectively feeding when he comes on, he will not manage to remove the milk effectively enough, and may still miss out on a full, satisfying and creamy feed.

The milk is not divided into two separate bits, foremilk and hindmilk. The milk when it's made is all the same stuff; foremilk trickles down to the front of the breast, and as the baby feeds more, the creamier components are pushed down the ducts. The more milk taken, the fattier it is.

Sometimes, a very forceful let down that overwhelms a baby can be 'softened' by expressing a little first.

Sometimes, mothers with hard, engorged breasts can benefit from expressing a little first as well, to enable the baby to latch on.

I can't think of any other situations where expressing before a feed would be of benefit - and as I say, babies need foremilk as well.

Hope I've explained it all

This is something that has been confusing me though!!
If my dd is a very quick/lazy/sleepy/efficent (I'm not sure which one), and only feeds for 5 to 10 mins, would i not be better off expressing a bit first so that she does get the creamier milk?

If your baby is fine, and thriving, then there is no need to do anything.

Plenty of babies get what they need in just a few minutes.

If she is not fine and thriving, then the breastfeeding needs to be fixed...probably not by expressing though.

Fixing the latch, encouraging the baby to stay on effectively, feeding more often to give more opportunities for milk to get into the baby...they're the first things to do.

Melanie, you are making the mistake of thinking the foremilk can just be discarded, in order for the baby to 'get the hindmilk'.

That's not how it works. See my previous post

Plus (sorry tiktok if you have already said this), the foremilk is the most thirst quenching part, so is necessary.

When expressing to help my engorgement, I only expressed enough to ensure that ds could latch on to my otherwise beach ball looking boobs!

Thanks for all the help. Just to keep you updated, dd still has green poo's, and it seems to be painfull for her to pass them. She is not grumpy ALL of the time, as she seems to sleep quite well half the time. We are perseveering with the bf and the NCT phoned us back and left a messgae, so tomorrow we will speak to them.

I would, however, like to know more about the "letdown". I'm not sure if I'm feelig this, I do feel a tingle beind the nipples, bit like a pulling behind the nipple, this happens sometimes during a feed and sometimes when not feeding. What does the letdown feel like, or is it different for each person?

This friday we are having dd weighed, so we'll let you know if shes gaining weight.

Letdowns happen several times in each feed. Some people feel them, some don't. It's very variable. Feeling them or not is not a good indication of whether bf is going well or not.

The sensations you describe do sound pretty much like letdown, though, minkyjj

Just to let you all know, we had our first session at the doctors baby clinic with the health visitor yesterday. Lil DD IS putting on weight (now up to 6lb 10oz, from birth weight of 6lb 1oz, now 3 weeks old). hip hip hooray

NOTE:- They expected us to have DD "naked"! while she was weighed!... If they expect us to hold an exposed bottom with our bare hands then they were sorely mistaken. I tried to explain that the bottom in question could "go off" at any moment, and was usually kept under wraps to avoid dangerous spillage. They ignored my plea's and I was forced to carry a nude baby (complete with bottom) from one part of the room, to the other with the scales. OK, there were no explosions and we all came out of it unscathed, but I was shocked by their devilmaycare attitude.

Back to the facts...

Also, we have had a couple of nice yellow poo's (Hoorah!).

Also health visitor said DD might have a lil colic, so we have infacol and dentinox which we will give a try this weekend.

Thats all for now, thanks again for all your help.
The NCT breasty helpline rang me back, but I had my hands full of you-know-what, so I havent phoned them back yet, will see how it goes.

You're doing fine. And a naked weigh is totally standard practise - we've all done it! Nappies can get very heavy you know, if you want to know how your baby is gaining weight,it's got to come off... Stop worrying and enjoy your baby. Newborn poo, I seem to remember, is strange and varied. And babies who seem to cry a lot are totally normal too.

Minkyjj my ds has peed on more than one scale in his time...