WHAT CAN BE DONE TO INCREASE BREAST FEEDING RATES IN THE UK.

[lissie]

we all know that postnatal care is a huge factor, but what else can be done?

i speak as a failed bf-er who will try again with every baby i have, but supports the mothers right to choose.

I feel so passionate about this but have nothing to add really that hasn't been suggested.

Totally agree with Reesie about BFing being a lost skill. I've Bf three babies and the thing that strikes me is that

1 its very hard to get support
2 I have to brace myself to Bf in public
3 wish people would stop staring at me when I do BF

Am very proud that I BF my babies as I had terrible problems but its only through sheer bloody mindedness that i persevered, not because I had access to any quality support

www.breastfeedingmanifesto.org.uk

I just found this, seems pretty concise to me! Celebs n all!

in hindsight think only mw who have bf should help, as frankly the ones who hadn;t had no clue whatsoever and just made it worse, until someone who had bf came along. also, to tell you not to worry if milk coming down is slow, as stress causes problems in that area. hospital and weighing machines not condusive to milk coming down. was like cow when left the hospital

know what you mean songecake - midwives who've never given birth puzzle me - not to mention bloody male midwives!
(one walked into the room when i was having ds and i effed and blinded at him till he ran away with his tail between his legs! )

I had a really difficult time in the beginning because of hospital procedures which led to nipple confusion and when we were readmitted for jaundice being told that I wasn't and couldn't feed him properly. Having just spent 3 days battling a baby who whenever he was put near a bosom would try to hit it and push it away and only having managed 1 day of good feeding this was incredibly demoralising. I was also unable to move for nearly 6 wks owing to c/sec and problematic recovery. For the record, ds is now 5 months and fully breastfed.

These are the things which would have helped a lot.

1. Not having a c/sec!!!!!!!!
2. Hospital not trying to force formula every time they considered that they needed more control.
3. A bit more support from the hospital instead of having to fight for the right to b/f when already in emotionally and physically fragile state.
4. HVs and MWs encouraging breast feeding rather than criticising for failing to keep on formula percentiles.
5. More rooms to breast feed in when outside. Feeding in public is a perfectly valid choice but aside from not wanting to expose my breasts, I didn't want to manouevere a wriggly baby with an aversion to my left bosom in public. Why should women who don't want to do this be confined to home or walks within easy reach of this? A cause of PND is not being able to go anywhere or see anyone.
6. Keeping men out of breast feeding rooms in Mothercare in Oxford street and Brent Cross.

This tip from a cousin with children in double figures really helped.

For the first week of feeding or so let your nipples dry in the air with a bit of milk on for 10 minutes after each feed to toughen them up. I did this and did not have sore nipples at all.

mm.. not sure if this is still going but anyway......

I had fantastic midwives.
Was visited every day for 4 weeks.
Had a hideous labour and delivery (6 days induction + mistakes at the end)and was barely sane. In fact not sane.
Breastfeeding was the only thing I did do as far as I'm aware for the first 3 months. @ 2 weeks I was the one who worked out he was lactose intolerant, and stopped drinking/eating all dairy. Everything else is a blur.
Used breastfeeding helplines. Were fantastic.
Found nursing in public was not an issue (despite 42 H boobs,I don't think anyone wanted to come near enough to comment when they saw the crazyness in my eyes).
@ 3 months 2 gps, 2 paeds. and several others didn't ask anything about my milk supply when DS started waking up screaming every 30 minutes for days and days. Only realised when I tried to express some did I realise there wasn't any milk. At all. MWs recommended domperidone, worked a treat; GPs and HVs hadn't heard of the idea, and thought I was mad.
Deep tissue thrust @ 6 months almost finished me off until I found a canadian protocol for taking low level diflucan for 6 weeks.....and a tame (new) GP to prescribe it. no obvious problems for DS as a consequence.
Fed DS for one week short of a year - within 2 weeks of stopping breastfeeding my PND all but disappeared, and I lost 2 stone in the following 8 weeks.

I feel really really P8ssed off that no one told me the truth. That it could be blardy hard work, that there were so many things that could go wrong, and that so many people (even those wretched HVs, doctors etc) who should know all these things didn't. I found everything via NCT, LL or mostly the web. Mostly it was part remembered stuff that I jotted down (in terms of phone numbers etc) before I had DS because after 4 stays in the postnatal ward before DS was born, I was damn certain I couldn't rely on them to tell me anything.

I suppose what I'm saying is that we need coherent training for everyone who has anything to do with new (and not so new) mums, and continuing professional education, and spy mothers who can go back and tell everyone exactly what they were (and weren't) advised.I also wish that the zealots would realise that by not telling the whole truth, that actually puts people off continuing. Not everyone loses weight, only about 25%, and 25% put more on. I saw my MW recently, and told her about my amazing turnaround after I stopped nursing. She said "would you have stopped breastfeeding if you'd known those things would go away [depression and weight]?" Damn right I would have (not for weight actually, but for the severe PND)... after 6 months or so anyway... and of course her inference was that that is why no one says anything......

I know, not very likely or rational - I think I've got carried away with the catharsis of remembering all that.

I would be very happy to talk to new mums (edited highlights only!) about the process, and point out that I'd still do it again...

That is an excellent post. Glad your m/w were so progressive.

FioFioJane - for good places to get prepared check out kiskidee's link to the breast crawl video posted on here, along with everyone's comments about it. Depending on where you live, there may be a local peer support group which can be brilliant. Or the NCT counsellors on the helpline (0870 444 8708) can be keep you sane when you don't know where to turn and everything's just feeling too hard. As for books, I've not read the LLL one (tbh the title made my stomach curdle ) but you could try Bestfeeding... (Renfrew, Fisher, Arms, repub'd 2004 but either are good) or the NCT Book of Breastfeeding (Mary Smale). Both are usually available 2nd hand on Amazon or Ebay.
All the best with DC3!

Gp's need training to help women who get thrush in their milk ducts, and NICE need to licence the drug that is safe to prescribe so that gp's can't refuse to prescribe it on the grounds that it's not licensed. A friend of mine persuaded her gp to give it her, mine refused so I had a choice of persevering in the face of mind numbing pain that continued between feeds, or stop breast feeding.

Roskva, I hadn't realised it wasn't licensed to be used in this way - how idiotic!! I don't blame you for stopping, I have to say it is truly the worst pain I have ever experienced (despite delivery experience - see screaming thread)...... Also, I cheated, GP would only give me 3 weeks, and I went to new doctor in Oz, whilst we were there for another 4 weeks... only used 3 though.

How many months/weeks had you been feeding? How long did it take to go?

Sorry, off post here a bit...... but all grist I suppose.

I managed 6 weeks, the last 2 were agony - I was actually dreading feeding my baby, which is crazy. Expressing was easier, as the pain didn't last as long, but even so, it HURT. There is a systemic anti-fungal that is licensed in the US and elsewhere, but it's not licensed here. My midwife was great and really tried to help me, but my gp wouldn't bend the rules or even consider a private prescription. It's not even an expensive drug, so I just don't get why the UK authorities won't licence it for bf mums.

I agree with those who say the key thing has to be better training for MWs and HVs to educate women about breastfeeding and providing the vital postnatal support. I had fantastic support- a mum who breastfed four kids, a sister who had fed her 18 month old for a year and a husband who comes from a country where breastfeeding until 2 years is the norm. I still struggled in those early days though, but got through and have been successfully feeding for 5 months. Coming from a background where bf is the norm I have been really shocked at the attitudes of some health workers. Also I don't think women who ff should be made to feel guilty at all- the issue is that those women who do want to bf are given full support.

Whilst antenatally my MW pushed bf as the option of choice, the advice was limited before 36 weeks to leaflets. Did plan to go to a workshop, but decided to go into labour instead on that evening.

I did not consider not bfeeding, but then again I was birth partner to a friend who bf until DD was a year old. She found it very easy, so much so we nicknamed her 'dairy crest' as the fridge was always full. When it came to DS, she couldn't get him to latch on and gave up at 4 weeks. Plus I'm also not that great when first awake and have enough trouble finding boobs let alone making up bottles

I know many folks have said that having a room to bf feels like they are being shut away, but if to bf successfully in the early days you need to be relaxed and have the right sort of support for your back,then the only way to ensure that may be to have separate areas. Given the choice of hard upright chair with no arms or a nice supportive sofa / chair, most people would go for the latter. People rarely give up their seat on the bus for pregnant women unless prompted, so how will they react if their latte is interrupted so someone can bf.

fondant4000 We had that at our antenatal clinic. A mum of a 5 week old baby came in and bf in front of us.

I went in and did it for other pg women when DS was 6 weeks. Unfortunately he wasn't interested in feeding as he was too sleepy. They all got to chat to me about it though and have a cuddle with a sleepy little one.

Here Here Rosvka!!!

I had thrush 4 times with DS1, which made me give up BFing after 5 months and I cried the day I had to give up.

With DS2 my GP agreed to prescribe Fluconazole [sp] but only in the low dose, so I had to self prescribe the high does by buying over the counter. It cost me £160 to get rid of the thrush!

I was so anxious I would dream that I was damaging my baby with the dosage, until I went to another Gp who checked it out and confirmed the high dose is perfectly safe and is used for prem babies anyway. But he didn't offer to prescribe me the higher does, 'cos of the licensing thing.

I think GP ignorance about breast thrush is one of the majore factors for women having to give up BFing. The pain from duct thrush is the worst pain I have ever felt - made even worse by the fact that the baby's mouth is in pain too, which makes baby bite on the nipple!

It's just occurred to me that my attitude to bf was probably ingrained from birth. My mum used to tell me ALL THE TIME that we were all fit and healthy because she breastfed us. It was only after she made a comment about me STILL bf at over a year I found out she only fed us all to about 8 months.... I assumed just assumed she had fed us for a long time.

Tiktok

Maybe the research shows that breastfeeding would save the NHS loads of money given the current resources allocated to supporting breastfeeding but the majority of posters' suggestions on this thread will cost the NHS a great deal in additional funding too.

(I have previously worked in the NHS for 5 years in what could be described as a "data manipulation role". I am aware that research stands for itself but I am also well versed in how statistics can and are routinely represented in a format which supports the current underlying government agenda, without too much thought for the impact on the NHS grass roots staff having to effect the policies in their daily working life)

Re the friend who feeds her kids crap and it is poor quality food a.k.a. crap. Our eldest children play together about once a month now, we take turns at each other's houses. I have seen her kitchen cupboards, just as she has seen mine, whilst helping her prepare lunch and the general style of their contents is not good. All of the foods I mentioned are contained therein and her son will not eat the healthy alternatives offered at our house so we accomodate him with the type of food he is happy with. I let ds have it too on all playdates because I know that he has it very rarely and I'm happy with that.

"Judgemental behaviour", IMHO would be buying the type of food my friend's ds likes, just for him to ear, and not allowing my ds to eat it too (feeding him the healthy alternative whilst he sits next to his friend) and having my friend see that I will not feed ds the sort of food her ds is eating.

"Judgemental behaviour" would be seeing her ds at the park with a picnic comprising the sort of foods I mentioned and jumping to the conclusion that that was what he ate all the time.

Their is a difference between being judgemental and having an opinion.

I am not judgemental with her either expressly or implied but I do inwardly note the irony of an evangelical breastfeeding mum subsequantly feeding her breastfed children such poor quality food. I put my friends post natal judgemental behaviour towards bottlefeeders down to hormones and being so enamoured with breastfeeding that she was almost evangelical about spreading the word however tactlessly she did it at the time.

I never join in sanctimonious foodie, crisps, fruit shoot, sausage roll and petit filous user, bashing threads as I think "each to their own" but where is the government guidance on this issue ? Does all government interest in the diet of the nation's children stop after breastfeeding ?

I personally think it would be a step in the right direction for the government to fund all schools to provide free hot lunches which are compulsory for all children, special dietary needs being carefully taken into account. I'd pay higher taxes for that.

I therefore think that before we insist on taxing formula milk so that only those with a prescription or the more well off can use it, we need to call for a tax on junk food and use the school system to reduce its potential impact during a 14 year period of our children's lives.

"I therefore think that before we insist on taxing formula milk so that only those with a prescription or the more well off can use it," - I have to say, I think that would be grossly unfair. That would mean that if you're not well off but not on benefits, and say get thrush, you would either have to suffer agony to feed your baby, or pay out more of your disposable income to feed your baby. I cannot express the pain I was in trying to feed my baby.

Absolutely

Formula on prescription /heavy taxing of formula are not sound ideas.

I personally probably would manage to still use formula under either of these proposals but my social conscience says "what about the less confident and less well off, why should they have the elemnt of choice taken away from them?"

Fedup - I did not say you engaged in judgemental behaviour. You can read my post again and you will see it was your attitude to your friend I was commenting on.

I can see now you have expanded a bit that you have some evidence on which to base an opinion of what she gives her child generally.

I have never called for a tax on formula milk. I think formula should be cheap and unbranded.

Amazed you have never seen any govt. guidance on healthy eating for kids, but yes, the DH emphasis on bf is more obvious, because the research that it closes inequality gaps is so strong, and because in some ways its easier to control, given that milk is the only source of nutrition for babies.

To support breastfeeding properly does need more resources, you are right, but there is plenty of research to show that the cost to the NHS of dealling with the health effects of formula feeding is much higher than proper support could ever be. Even if this was not the case, why look at the bottom line all the time? A healthy-as-possible population is worth the expense.

fedup - why should school meals be compulsory for all children? School isn't compulsory you know!

fedup - contrary to what you suggest in your post (that government interest in healthy food stops after Bfing)I would suggest its the other way round entirely.

There is masses of government intervention regading healthy eating/reducing obesity atm and the coverage given to BFing and intervention to support Bfing is very low in comparison.

was thinking about this and a while ago there was a big gov campaign highlighting the effects of smoking, how about a tv advert featuring celebs or normal mothers talking about the benefits of bf-ing (reduced cancer risk, portable, free, develops with baby's needs etc) and showing it during emmerdale/corrie/enders and during this morning etc. im sure davinia mcCall/mutya etc would oblige.

How about showing a few mums bfing on corrie/emerdale/enders, etc? As a lot of folk seem endlessly fascinated by what soap stars do, that may be more effective than advertising

tiktok - what are the health effects to the NHS re: formula feeding?

Is that not a little spurious, to say the least?