WHAT CAN BE DONE TO INCREASE BREAST FEEDING RATES IN THE UK.

[lissie]

we all know that postnatal care is a huge factor, but what else can be done?

i speak as a failed bf-er who will try again with every baby i have, but supports the mothers right to choose.

I think that the main reason I have managed to successfully breastfeed ds and dd for a year is that i had the support of people around me. If it wasn't for my Mum and dh during the first week i don't know if i would have got through the difficult bit at the start. It would be great if successful breastfeeding mums could be paired up as support for those starting out. a bit like meet a mum, but over the phone support, someone to say you're doing really well, it gets easier etc. emaotional support, as well as practical. also the media needs to take some responsibility, everyone thinks it's normal to have a naughtystep/ time out/ get down to a low level and say no in clear voice type thing. and that is because the t.v has been endlessly filled with how to be a good parent progrqammes .Surely they could do something positive for breastfeeding??

Good points about TV and maternity leave, it really should be 12 months mat leave (plus also 12 months paternity leave)...

have only read op and first few posts, and this has probably been said, BUT...

formula on prescription is - imo - the worst idea i can possibly think of. there are few mothers i know (both in rl and on here) who haven't been given crappy advice by health professionals. in my case it was my hv who told me ds was ready for weaning at 11 weeks because he'd doubled his birth weight. totally bonkers. when i said i was hoping to bf exclusively till 6 months, she looked askance at me and said, "Oh, you're one of those are you?"

now imagine giving her, and people like her, the power to prescribe formula. and that being the only way to get it. even at 2am when your baby is screaming and you have no fricking clue what to do.

bad, bad idea.

FWIW - i think the best way to raise bf-ing rates in this country, is to normalise it. that means that we see less tv programs about how someone bf their 8 year old, or about a 35 year old man who preys on bf-ing women because he gets a sexual thrill from it, and more programs about how lovely a bf-ing experience someone had. or someone who really struggled to bf but managed it in the end. of course this won't happen, because it's normal things like this that don't make the news, but still. i can dream.

also, we need honest antenatal care for new mums. so instead of saying in antenatal classes, "It shouldn't hurt if you're doing it properly, it's a lovely experience, you'll feel so close to your child," and all that stuff, pregnant women hear, "You know what, it might hurt, for a few weeks, even if you are latched on properly. Lansinoh is the best product ever." And, "Breastfeeding can be a lovely nurturing experience, but it might not be." it really fucks me off, the way I was lied to in AN class.

all of this has probably been said further down the thread, and i'm sorry if i'm repeating what others have said. but it is something i feel strongly about. the NHS pays lipservice to the Breast is Best message. i can't remember who said it, but changing that slogan to "Breast is Normal" would be a good start.

i think a series on those baby channels like home and health etc following different mums as they learn to bf. most of the series just follow pregnancy to birth then that's it.

i saw a newish one called bringing baby home (i think) which was american, but everytime they did any bf they just filmed the bedroom door while the mum fed inside the room! so you could hear her saying things like oh dear he isn't latching on, but you couldn't see it! it really didn't give much insight at all, just lots of lovely trips to the park etc, showing the visitors coming to see the baby etc, no real stuff.

so i want a proper series showing mums going through bf.

Less bullshit from health professionals would be nice.

Things I was told:

"Your breast milk is giving your baby jaundice."
"It's supposed to hurt, you just have to put up with it I'm afraid."
"It's normal for him to suck for four hours, that's just how he is."

LIES LIES LIES LIES. I got through it and b/f for nine months. I only persevered because my PND was so bad, I thought that if I gave DS formula I would kill myself from the guilt. Now, of course, I know better. But the experience has made me think: right, next time, I'm not going to suffer agony trying to b/f. I'm going to just give him/her formula and save myself all that bullshit. Or pay for a private breastfeeding counsellor.

Followed this thred at the beginning, but have lost track a bit now! Just wanted to let those of you that were discussing advertising know that I have just seen an NHS ad for breasfeeding!

I breastfed my son exclusively for almost 6 months and my hv also looked at me like I was mad.

Part of the reason I'm still feeding is laziness (I just can't put up with the faff of bottles) but I have considered giving up because I have found it almost impossible to find a nice nursing bra that fits me (I am a 28G) and which I can wear normal clothes over the top of. They make sexy nursing bras but most start at 34in. I think better clothes for nursing women, like there is now for pregnant women would have made me a lot happier.

Perhaps this is a bit superficial but after months of maternity clothes it bothers me that I still can't put on some of my old clothes.

You have tried bravissimo and figleaves for bras right?

Yes, I couldn't live without Bravissimo but even their nursing range is depressing. I have one from them - they do make them that fit but you can't get any which aren't full full cup scaffolding affairs - I know you need the support and all but they make normal bras in nice shapes for those sizes.

It's very trendy to be a mum these days, all the celebrities are at it, but you never hear them talking about breast feeding. I think the media attitude isn't very positive. In books if it's ever referred to it's always some earth mother type 'flopping' her boobs out and offending people. There need to be some positive role models. Maybe Charlotte Church, Myleen Klass, someone like that should be brought on side. (Though I imagine if the paparazzi were following me around I'd be a bit reluctant to flop anything out too!)

Crumpets - loads of celeb mums talk about breastfeeding!

Including Myleen and many others.

I don't think it makes any difference to individual mothers, though, I really don't.

Oh sorry, I am ill informed. And I agree, it wouldn't make any difference to an individual.

I'm a GP and my only worry is that I think quite a lot of mothers who are struggling to bf feel terribly pressured. I have seen women who are literally trying to feed all the time (baby latched constantly) and I don't think that is good for either of them. Everyone knows breast is best (well, except a few of the people of this tread perhaps) but it needs to be said gently. The last thing you need when you're coping with a new baby is added stress.

I think there should be at least 2 or 3 visits by a lactation consultants to mums within 48 hrs of leaving the hospital. Plus follow ups by phone and more visits to mums who are struggling.
I think too much pre-natal focus is on the birth, mums should be fully educated on latching on, how breast milk is produced, how to keep up a good supply and post-natal preperation rather than hours of advice on breathing techniques as although these are benificial you'll have help at hand to guide you when you are giving birth.
Also I think all mums should be able to afford an electric breast pump. 85 quid is ridiculous - you can get kettles for about 20 pounds so why should breast pumps be so damn expensive! Plus all mums should be given a brest friend feeding pillow - make things much more pleasant!!
yay for boobies.......

Crumpets, mums whose babies are latched constantly to the point where the mum feels the baby is never anything but desperate for a feed, miserable, or actually feeding, may need a lot of help and support to continue bf, to help make it work for them....fixing the bf so it is not this unrewarding chore. I agree it is not good for a mum and baby to be like this. They can get help, though - any competent bfc will be experienced in handling a situation like this with support and tact.

gogetter - where are the lactation consultants going to come from? There are about 80 in the whole of the UK, and most are already working full time in other capacities. Last time I looked there were about 15 in private practice.

How are they going to make 2-3 visits to the 450,000 mothers who start breastfeeding a year???

I go back to my position of asking for the people who are already in touch with new mums - the HVs and midwives - to be trained to do their job better!

can you look at this thread please here

I think the editor of Company (or was it GLamour?) mag could help a littl emore. SIL and friend bought above mags, in editorial of one (the one with Myleene Klass on cover) Editor says (to paraphrase slightly) "yes, breastfeeding does ruin your boobs".

Helpful.
And somewhat misleading as 'just' being pregnant contributes muchly to any 'ruination'

Definitely more education and support postnatally - bf mums should be able to contact a mentor (ie another mum who is successfully bf, as was mentioned previously in another message). I have been bf for 12 weeks now but in the early stages it was hell - I nearly gave up, only one mum I was in hospital with is still bf. The midwives in hospital were very pro-bf and helpful but it was when I got home I really needed extra assistance, I felt under a lot of pressure to keep going and that I would be a failure if I gave up which did not help my mental state in the early days! Also more acceptance for women bf in public and places to bf.

Yes, Tiktok I agree, there needs to be a lot of support but the reason I think the women I've seen have come to me rather than the bfc (there is an extremely good one in my local hospital, I rang her twice myself) or their health visitor is because those are the people they feel are putting on the pressure. I think the idea of having a mentor is brilliant. I am very lucky, the lady who did my ANC was fantastic and offered a weekly baby club after birth for advice/support and every one of the mums in our group (about 10) breast fed for several months, most are still doing so (at 6-7months). Statistics like that can't be chance, that's the difference good support makes.

Crumpets, support that translates as pressure is no good at all, I so agree.

Can you raise this with the HV and the hospital bfc (is she really a breastfeeding counsellor? Very few 'real' breastfeeding counsellors work in hospitals - the vast majority of trained bfcs are unpaid volunteers )? Also, mothers of older babies are very unlikely to call the hospital for help. With my suggestion, I meant to offer them the possibility of calling/seeing a breastfeeding counsellor, none of whom would put pressure on a mother (or if they did, they would not be doing their job right).

Mentors, in bf terms, are peer supporters and there must be hundreds and hundreds of them now - far more than bfcs. Is there a peer support programme in your area? Peer supporters offer friendship and social support, and are trained in listening and in basic bf knowledge.

Maybe she's not a bf counsellor, she's an infant feeding specialist. I think she used to be a midwife. She works out of the hospital but runs groups for bf support etc separately.

I think a lot of the people we see as doctors are people whove made up their mind that they want to stop, are scared of their hv and are looking for medical validation for their decision. I expect a lot of the time they get just that. I wonder how many doctors would know where to point a woman for help if the HV wasn't an option. Sadly, unless you've breastfed yourself I don't think most GPs have enough knowledge or time (sad old excuse but you really can't do much in 10 minutes).

As I sit here with a baby covered in butternut squash and a nappy full of scary poo I am yearning for the days of milk and milk alone...

Most hospital-based infant feeding specialists would prob not be the right person to talk over a decision to stop, I agree, Crumpets. Breastfeeding counsellors - the proper ones! - can do this, and I often do....we help the mother make up her own mind, and then if she wants to stop, she needs to know the smoothest and most comfortable way to do it.

Maybe some mums do want a medically-valid back-up for a decision to stop - but as there is only rarely a medically-valid reason, there must be a lot of fudging going on (in the mum's own head, too).

In my experience, GPs really don't know how to help a mother stop in the 'best' way - not their fault as there is no training, as you say.

I would like it if GPs were able to appreciate they don't know enough, and not to make it up! I am certain they do not mean to sabotage breastfeeding relationships, but this is what happens in effect.

Then Starlight, you need to let the bfc know where she is going wrong, then....I do bf classes, and I am careful to mix confidence-boosting with reality, but I probably get things wrong, too. It is very hard to do a class that meets everyone's needs, and I am sure some of us do it better than others.

I am also aware that people do hear different things and come away with different impressions. Many bfcs report that their classes evaluate as, say 'never mentioned sore nipples' or 'would have liked more information on how to breastfeed' when we know we included it all!

How could the bfc who took your class spend 2.5 hours talking about breastfeeding and leave you unwilling to seek help in case she critcised you (which she would not have done, believe me)? She needs to know you were left feeling you could not call her. Part of the raison d'etre of classes - and this is in the training - is to be someone who class members can feel ok about calling.