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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Gina Ford vs. Babywise

98 replies

catcatdelight · 30/08/2004 13:14

I've had my 7.5 week old DS on GF since birth, and am going to give BAbywise a go. Reason being, he is a hungry boy (not out of control hungry, just hungry), and it looks to me like he gets one extra feeding on Babywise and they are spaced closer together, which is better. He gets cranky in the afternoons, and cannot seem to make it to the GF 5pm split feed nicely. He 's not sleeping thru nite yet on GF. We put him down at b/t 11p and 12, after the one hour feed/wake GF recommends. He then wakes up at 3:40am, and I feed him a bottle. But then he grizzles and doesn't sleep so well b/t 4a and 7a. He's usually up at 6:30a needing a feed. BTW, my normal feed is 20 minutes on the left breast and 20 minutes on the right breast and then from 80ml-125 ml formula top up. He gets topped up at every feed,a s he's so hungry. (though, he has gained 12 oz. per week, so I am a little concerned about overfeeding).

My question is, is there anyone out there who has a similar situation to me, and has an opinion on BAbywise vs. Gina Ford, part. for hungry boys? I'd like to know which one will get him to sleeping thru the night faster. Also, his best sleep of the day on GF is b/t 7p and 11p. He could sleep all night from that feed, and I'd rather he have that great sleep after the 11pm obviously. anyone?

OP posts:
codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:16

why does wveryone feelt he need to follow a book at al
its all common sense
feed them wind them and put htem to bed ina dark room!

Beetroot · 30/08/2004 21:18

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Slinky · 30/08/2004 21:19

Exactly Coddy!

Have never read a baby book in my life - other than recently having a peek at Gina Ford to see waht all the fuss is about!

Managed to get my 3 through babyhood with Gina/Baby Whisperer and the like!

linnet · 30/08/2004 21:20

Wasn't there a couple in America? a few years ago who's baby died or nearly died because they followed this routine? the bit about witholding feeds rings a bell, might go do a google search for that.

I read GF's CLBB and although I haven't followed it to the letter, I just used it as a rough guide to figure out what I should be doing, my dd2 has found her own routine which is more or less the same as GF's give or take an hour or two.

Beetroot · 30/08/2004 21:22

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codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:23

i8ts not easy bt I know BUT you only have to watch those bbc3 progs on parenting to realise that a lot of it is common sense
babies need a vagie routine that suits you when theya re old enough
new bborns cry and feed and are a PITA!

Beetroot · 30/08/2004 21:26

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codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:27

exactly
blod y nutters all t hses people
grrr

Slinky · 30/08/2004 21:29

and dangerous

Rushed DH to A&E yesterday after he sliced his arm and hand after putting his hand through an empty fish tank (don't ask!!).

Whilst sitting in there, (which can I just say was an incredibly short time - DH was whisked straight through to be seen), I got talking to a woman next to me who had a very swollen eye and couldn't see out of it.

I asked what happened - a baby had poked her in the eye and scratched the eyeball! (baby had also been mashing up his food with said hand just before!).

I turned to DD2 and said "see, that's why we don't want any more babies, they smell, make too much noise and they're dangerous!"

codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:30

not in f ront of the mum?!

Slinky · 30/08/2004 21:32

I'm with you Coddy and Beetroot.

None of mine had any routine until we started on solids (which was about 4.5 months) - and then they sort of "slipped" into some sort of routine.

I also think that these sort of books undermine the confidence of mothers who worry that their babies are not doing X, Y and Z - and then add unnecessary stress and worry.

Slinky · 30/08/2004 21:33

The woman wasn't the mum - friends baby

codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:33

yes and i seemd to think with ds2 and 3 that the routine happened earlier than it actually did, but that was wishful thinking!
babaies doa s they please -t hats why they are hard worlk

ladymuck · 30/08/2004 21:40

Give the girl a break! It's her first post, her first baby, and whilst Babywise or GF isn't everyone's cup of tea, she is only asking about feeding a hungry baby. She is not putting reins on her baby, smacking him or abusing him - if he's putting on 12oz a week he doesn't sound as if he is about to die from having feeds withheld. She probably hasn't had time to read all the previous threads which would have warned her not to mention any baby book when looking for advice.

I do agree with the suggestions of relaxing and readjusting expectations though, but I think that the books can be of some help if that's what you're into, so long as you realise that all mums and babies are different.

beansmum · 30/08/2004 21:41

feeling very smug today, ds has been sleeping from 8.30 to 6.30 for the past week. i read gina ford but really couldn't be bothered, let ds get in his own routine and it seems to have worked. i don't know much about babywise but common sense tells me that withholding feeds and smacking is not a good way to raise a healthy happy baby

moomina · 30/08/2004 21:46

I don't think anyone's giving catcat a hard time! Think everyone's just slightly gobsmacked at the Babywise 'formula' and suggesting that perhaps 7.5 weeks is a little too early to be expecting great sleep. No-one's suggesting she's about to harm her baby...

codswallop · 30/08/2004 21:46

exaclty

moomina · 30/08/2004 21:48

coddy you're just agreeing with me so you can get your name on another thread

linnet · 30/08/2004 21:49

I've googled and I can't find the article I'm thinking of, it may not have been the babywise routine that they were following though, it just sounded familiar when mentioned here.

Didn't mean to worry you CatCat. Just go with the flow and I'm sure in a few weeks your ds will find his own routine which may be more or less the same as the one that GF suggests in her books.

ladymuck · 30/08/2004 22:19

moomina, I think that that is my point - what has been described here as the "babywise formula" are odd statements taken out of context, and little about what Babywise has to suggest about feeding patterns.

Statements such as "I just cannot understand why some parents out there choose to follow "Babywise" - it's distressing, shocking and abusive " and "Those authors are DREADFUL and EVIL people. Baby Nazis, and I'd never use that term lightly" will come across as harsh to the average first-timer who is following the program, as does references to deaths due to the program. I find them quite strong myself, but I've been around long enough to know that GF et al are controversial - and my 2 seems to be thriving despite me turning to books for ideas.

moomina · 30/08/2004 22:28

These discussions always raise hackles, which is why I tried to make it clear in my post at least that I was simply pointing up what I'd recently read about it. I wouldn't use the word evil myself but I do certainly think it's very extreme (babywise, that is). But why should people not voice their opinions strongly? As I said, they're not giving catcat a hard time. They're vehemently opposed to Babywise as they see it, and entitled to be so.

AussieSim · 30/08/2004 23:22

We don't know if catcatdelight has been offended yet. She has asked for opinions on GF vs Babywise and I think she has gotten that.

What I want to revisit is the BFing and topping up. IME the baby will find it easier to suck on the bottle, getting more milk faster than from the breast and will therefore suck lazily at the breast knowing that the bottle is coming and therefore diminishing the breastmilk supply. This was happening to me as my DS was premmie with sever jaundice and was bottle fed for the first 2 weeks and it took me about three weeks to get him taking all his meals from the breast.

Please come back and give us a response catcat.

bloss · 31/08/2004 04:02

Message withdrawn

tiktok · 31/08/2004 08:33

SoupDragon, I think you are talking about the Baby Whisperer, not Babywise.

All three books - Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer, Babywise - have similarities in that they think that parents' prescriptive scheduling of their babies from the first day of life is a) possible and b) desirable. They dress up this message in different ways, and they promise that if you follow what they say, your baby will be happier as a result.

We know from a ton of research into the way babies' brains and physiological systems develop in the first few months that being responsive to your baby's needs for food, love and comfort is essential, and there is a lot of evidence that not being responsive may affect their own psychological robustness in later years. Most parents are responsive - even though they may be following a book (intended for a general audience) and not their baby (who is a unique individual), they are usually only using the book as a background guide, and they often depart from it when their baby seems to 'tell' them different.

I do think some of these ideas have the potential to harm babies - yes, harm them. Babywise authors in particular have the notion that they have a hotline to God, who apparently wants us to hit babies of just a few months old (this is not emphasised in the Babywise books, which are secularised versions of a religious programme of child rearing, but it is certainly a part of Raising Kids Gods Way, which is their US campaign, now banned, apparently, in some churches).

The other thing these books have in common is an almost perverse ignorance as to how breastfeeding works. I say 'perverse' as again we know and have known for ages how it works. There is no real excuse for anyone writing books telling people how to breastfeed not to know this stuff.

Catcat feeds 20 mins on each side and then tops up with a bottle feed at every feed - this is actually not what the standard GF routine is, but she does talk about the timing of feeds as if the breasts are containers that take a certain amount of predictable time to fill and empty.

Sleeping through the night is not a race. Babies need to wake up in the night. This is biology

aloha · 31/08/2004 11:49

I know a bit about the Ezzos and I don't take back anything I said. They are wicked people who advocate hitting babies.

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