4 day old bf baby- why is this so hard :((((((((

[needaplan]

Firstly thank you for even reading this.

I have a 4 day old dd who I'm trying to bf. I didn't succeed with dd1 who never latched on properly. With help from the mw's, dd2 latched on well (well, she seems to- opens mouth fairly wide, sucks, seems to swallow well, stays on for 15-25 mins) though my nipples are sore so I'm losing confidence with this now. For the 1st 3 days she fed around every 3-4 hrs (weighed 6lb 13oz at birth). She has been hard to settle at night though sleeps well in the day. Last night was horrendous-she had a pretty good feed at 10.30 ish last night and then wouldn't sleep or feed (was screaming) until gone 5am. She eventually pood and had a very brief feed before falling asleep. She has hardly been awake since.

I am worried about her losing too much weight and have stupidly weighed her myself (we have baby scales). She has lost 10oz. She is a bit jaundiced too.

I am just confused- what shall i do? Even though I thought she was feeding well, I can;t really tell if she has wet nappies- they don't seem wet at all. The poo in the night was very dark greenish and loosish (I think that's ok).

I spoke to a bf counsellor who said to put her to the breast every 2-3 hrs and she'll probably suck even though she's asleep (what a joke). Then to express if she won't feed. I gave her some expressed milk at 11am as she latched on but fell straight back to sleep on breast with no sucking. How much ebm should I give though? Or should I give it at all?

I am so upset. I think more so because I thought there was a chance of bf working this time . Any ideas would be much appreciated. A bit at NCT helpline- I pressed the option to say I was in distress etc but still only got option to leave a message and still had no call back.

I don't want to repeat all the good advice you have had, but did want to say that IMO its important only to have visitors when YOU feel ready. After DS2 was born 5 weeks ago I said no to visitors until 3 weeks. All was fine and he was feeding well but I just felt too tired to see people and I wanted to concentrate on feeding the baby. I didn't feel at all bad about saying no...

Also for what its worth, I wouldn't worry too much about the weight gain, if that is possible. It sounds like your DD is looking well and doing lots of wet and dirty nappies which is a great sign.

DO try and get some help from a BF counsellor if you can, everyone i know who did this found it a huge help.
GOod luck and look after yourself too, its an emotional time in the first few days/weeks... Breastfeeding is often really hard work in the beginning but it does get easier if you can stick with it...

needaplan - sounds like you are doing really well and you obviously really really want breastfeeding to succeed - well done for getting to this point

but i'd just like to give my point of view - i think if the midwife is happy with babies progress you need to try and relax a little (easier said than done i know )
it's only early days and your milk only just come in it'll take awhile to get settled into it but when you do it'll be fantastic
also i think you're getting too caught up with the babies weight most babies lose at first and she's only a week old she'll regain it

good luck with it hopefully it'll get easier for you very soon

my third lost a lot of weight in the first 2 weeks and I had to get her weighed every 3 days, express what I could and log feeds/times/amounts of expressed/length of breast feed. Took up to about 3 weeks before she actually put on a few weeks.

i think if she wasn't my third I would have been panicking but I knew she was fine in the way she was acting and responding to things etc.

i think if it happened again the same way I would tell everyone to get stuffed and leave me alone if I had no concerns about her general health and well being.

This won't mean you can't breast feed, you might just have to persevere a bit longer and a bit harder but hey ho, thats what having a baby is all about

I agree with chocolatekimmy, too much emphasis on baby's weight/length of feeds/expressing etc can really undermine breastfeeding and make it harder work than it should be.
With DS1 I found bfeeding quite stressful - I had the opposite problem to you as he wanted to feed nearly all the time.
I started writing down how often I fed, from which side, how long the feed was etc until I realised it wasn't helping me or him, it was just making things more stressful. I decided to try and go with the flow a bit more and things did get easier.
Also I often fed him lying down, had him in bed with me at night for easier feeding and as Tiktok says picking up the cues, and had lots of skin to skin which was lovely.
These things all seemed to help settle him (and me) and improve the feeding. HTH...

Hi Needaplan, it DOES sound like things are progressing, even if you're not 100% happy with things. I posted a few days ago to tell you how similar my DS was - we also had problems with him regaining his birthweight.

On day 3 he had lost weight, as they all do. Day 7, he had gained a bit, day 10 he had lost more, so he weighted less than on day 3, then I think by day 14 he was just under his birthweight. So it fluctuated a bit, and I know how you feel, on day 10, when he had lost more after initally gaining a bit, it was awful, and I really questioned whether I was doing the right thing in persevering with the bf-ing. He would only ever feed for 5-10 mins at a time, and I was convinced he wasn't getting enough as all my books said that feeds normally took 30 mins +.

We also did the whole weigh / feed / weigh again thing, and he only gained tiny amounts after a feed, I think about 25 g.

However, by week 3, he was completely back on track, and I exclusively breast fed him for 4 months when I returned to work. He's now a blooming 7 month old and those worries of the first few weeks seen such a distant memory.

It' so hard to keep things in perspective when you are exhausted from the birth, exhausted from lack of sleep, and your hormones are all over the place, but you are doing such a great job. The jaundice is getting better, you're getting wet and dirty nappies, and she has woken a few times to demand a feed. These are all really positive indicators that things are going ok and she IS getting what she needs. I'm sure the weight gain will improve in the next few days.

You had a great plan with offering a bit of ebm to get her going, then offering the breast - I'm sure if you carry on in that vein, you will have the results you want in no time.

Good Luck

You are all helping me so much- thank you

We had an awful night last night. Even though dd only lost 20g at the weigh in, it still got me down and mw saying I had to give 2oz ebm top-ups after every feed was just demoralising. So, at midnight, dd had a pretty below average feed. At 4am, she wouldn't latch on at all- too sleepy, even with a nipple shield so I just gave 2.5oz ebm . At 7.30am, she was the same- ARRRGGGHHHH and again just had to give her ebm in a bottle. Felt guilty with it being the weekend but phoned the LLL I spoke to last Tuesday who very kindly said I could go to her house (originally just to collect a supplemental nursing system). She said dd was just about the sleepiest baby she'd seen!! She watched her try to latch on and then drop off to sleep again! She made me do skin to skin- I guess she had to see for herself that that makes dd even cosier and sleepier and admitted it didn't work!! Best way to wake dd is strip her and lay her on a blanket on her own! Anyway, with a nipple shield, she did latch on and fed well eventually. I think she could see that nipple shields were a good and necessary thing in our case- big nipples and baby with little mouth. She convinced me to drop the bottles of ebm and cup or syringe feed supplements instead. All in all, she reassured me I was trying all I could. I think the best tip was to always wait for dd to come off the boob on her own even if she takes ages as she would have more chance of getting the hindmilk (we still have green poos). DD fed twice within 1.5hrs after we got home plus cluster feeding from 5 til 7.30!! She has only had a 10ml top up this afternoon so god knows if she's getting enough but we have had 2 yellow poos since midday. So feeling quite positive but I will be back at rock bottom tomorrow if there's further weight loss. Also not sure whether to give top ups if she feeds more regularly/efficiently tonight .

hi needaplan,
the LLL lady sounds wonderful. even if there is weight loss tomorrow morning, try not to be too down about it - give her advice a chance to work first. it sounds like its made a difference already. hopefully you also feel better for it too.
Did dd have 10ml because thats all you had or all she wanted? If its all she wanted then that could be great news as it means she took plenty from you.
Dont' know what to suggest for tonight - can't see how it would hurt to top her up if only for your own peace of mind and then have a whole day tomorrow when you do exactly what the LLL lady said.
Other than all the stress of feeding how is everything going; Does DD seem happier in herself? Is the jaundice improving? Hows DD1 getting on? Are you feeling better do you think?

Popeye- I just did a 10ml syringe- I gave her about 6mls to give her a taste for milk etc. I then bf her and tbh just forced the last 4mls in afterwards instead of wasting it! I think she possetted a bit out! Never quite know whether she is too full or too sleepy though.

DD seems very contented, thanks for asking. But then I think she's just not that bothered about feeding so long as she's getting some milk! Everything is great apart from this feeding rollercoaster, more positive day today though

you sound much better . it does sound like things are generally improving - bet you never thought you'd be excited about a yellow poo .
hope you have a better night and fingers crossed for tomorrow
x

Hiya - Glad things are going better. Sounds like the LLL counsellor had some good advice. Another similarity with my DS - he was the same with skin to skin too - decided it was a lovely cosy place to curl up and go to sleep!!!!

Yellow poo a great sign - hurray for yellow poo!!!!

Jojay- our DC do sound so similar!! I think it's quite unusual to have sleepy babies. People think you're so lucky (which is right in a way) but they don't get the other side of it!

DD gained a bit today (1.5oz) so that was a bit of a boost. Would have liked more but she only seemed to 'wake up' yesterday really. Still a bit worried about my milk supply and feeds are taking so long. She latches on for 20 minute bursts but a lot of the time, not swallowing a great deal (goes great for a minute or so then has a 5 min rest). She then repeats this for up to an hour and a half. Does this sound ok? She has been doing this for 24 hrs now and I let her sleep 2.5-3 hrs inbetween feeds. I've given up on the syringe top-ups because she doesn't seem to want it and a lot of it gets possetted out-she doesn't do this at all after a bf.

When I say she repeats it for an hr and half, I mean she has 4 or 5 20 min sessions in an hr and a half.

needaplan it all sounds so much better. hurrah for the yellow poos and weight gain!
you're doing a fabulous job.

it's not that unusual to have sleepy babies, i think dd was 2-3 weeks before we stopped having to wake her up for feeds. got a bunny rabbit rattle for this which to this day is a favourite toy.

however as my MIL kept telling me "she won't starve herself"! you are doing brilliantly at helping her along a bit and it's fabulous you found someone to watch you and your baby and judge what is best to do.

really does sound as though you're turning the corner, well done for persevering, it can be so hard.

They do sound so similar don't they!! I'm sure once you're over this hurdle and she's feeding well, you will REALLY appreciate having a good sleeper!!!!

My DS got more alert over time, but he's still a good sleeper, which is a godsend!!

I think it's really normal for young babies to take a long time over each feed. A lot of my friend's babies used to feed for an hour or so at a time, but it will get quicker as she gets older.

In the meantime, use it as a good excuse to put your feed up - just make sure you have the remote control to hand!!

Whoops, FEET not feed!!

i'm so pleased to hear things are improving for you - keep up the good work !!!!

just a thought but did you have pethedine in labour ? i did with dd and she was really sleepy for the first few days . . .just wondering and being nosey

maximummummy- nope, no pethidine. Infact no labour at all which is probably part of the reason for the sleepiness. She was elective c/s. I am shattered after a fair bit of feeding in the night. Still not convinced we have turned the corner. When I express, I hardly get anything but am not really expressing much (just using breast shells to collect milk from the opposite boob when feeding) as don't have the time. Am trying to feed every 2-3 hrs now and will take 1 day at a time...

needaplan sounds like you're doing a brilliant job - it will get easier.

I could never get the hang of expressing - never got any milk out, but i did have loads - just not good at expressing it. I'd pump for ages and get a tiny bit hardly worth saving.

Also - it was 2 weeks before dd started gaining weight - was slow start - but fine - she was also very sleepy to start with - in special care with jaundice for first week and feeding only every 4 hours. By the end of the second week we'd found our stride - she was exclusively bf for 6 month - and still extended bf now! So don't feel downhearted, it's early days and sounds like you're both making fab progress.

i never managed to express either - the only time i ever did was when i had mastitus with dd so really needed some relief and to take the pressure off.

aaah your baby will be one week old tomorrow so you've got through the hard bit it'll get easier now surely ?

hello all, I think things are generally better. Feeds are still taking 1hr+, though dd had gained another 1.5oz on Tuesday and I think she is getting enough judging by wet/dirty nappies. Wish she would just get back up to her birthweight and I might relax a bit more- v. unlikely she'll get there until 2.5 weeks old at this rate but I suppose that's ok given the v. rocky start.

Didn't enjoy last night v. much- woke dd every 3.5hrs but she was very sleepy both times and only went on one breast each time. Is this ok milk supply-wise? I would happily express but just get nothing (and I am an experienced expresser). Whereas, if I feed dd on one side, the breast shell on the other side collects around 1oz each time- can't work it out . Is it ok if dd sometimes goes 3-4 hrs between feeds at night? She had been feeding 1-2 hourly since 4pm the previous afternoon so maybe needed to catch up on sleep?

All sounds normal, needaplan...go with the flow and don't try to micro-manage the feeds or their scheduling or their length. You don't need to

Sounds like you're doing brilliantly needaplan. Very well done for sticking with it.

OK thanks, feel reassured . Am going to let her go a longer between feeds etc as she then seems to feed more efficiently.

sounds like baby is settling down and that your both more relaxed i'd say if she's sleeping 3-4 hours at a stretch let her and enjoy your sleep ! I really really wouldn't be worried about her not yet regaining her b/w yet if she seems ok to you and midwife is happy i'm sure she's fine.

keep up the good work