To knock breastfeeding on the head?

[DarkRoomDarren]

I have a 10 week old baby. We have been doing a mixture of bfing and feeding expressed milk from a bottle (due to poor latch / baby completely refusing to latch quite early on). Occasionally, (usually every few days), we have to use formula, as we run out of breast milk and he’s still hungry after breastfeeds. He hasn’t settled for longer than about 20 minutes after a breastfeed and, usually, it’s even sooner than that when he is hungry again.

I’ve noticed that, the more I bf him, the more we need formula; I was making a concerted effort to bf more this weekend. This meant I got less milk when I pumped and we ended up using more formula.

Aibu to think this is stupid and I should just continue pumping and forget about bfing? I had wanted to ebf, but he just doesn’t settle after I feed him.

Dh thinks I should go the other way now and stop pumping, just bf and accept that he’ll have to have formula after every feed, but I don’t really see the merit in that.

Currently, I have to be in the house to pump, as I use a big, hospital grade, double pump. I do this three times a day, plus one in the night. I think dh thinks I’ll be able to get out and about more if I stop pumping, but bfing, followed by a formula top up every feed isn’t exactly easy on the hoof either.

Any thoughts? Many TIA.

That's a fair point Assassinated and I don't want to turn this into a debate. A woman should be applauded if she perseveres with breast feeding but should also have no qualms about stopping if it's not working.

The original question "Am I unreasonable to knock breastfeeding on the head?" I would always answer with No. In light of the problems Op has had from the start, then a hospital admission where he was formula fed early on, I think it's almost inevitable that bf'ing would be extremely difficult.
That's no one's fault or choice, it's mostly due to circumstance.

There's no need for applause and OTT praise for breastfeeding, just no need for the dismissal of it as meaningless and pointless.

I totally agree that stopping and fully formula feeding is an ideal solution, if that's what the OP would prefer. It is totally reasonable and in fact what nearly all women do between 6 weeks and 6 months.

Not opening mouth wide can be related to TT.

There is Milk Matters which is in Yorkshire somewhere, I'm not sure if anywhere near you! milkmatters.org.uk/

Google for IBCLC and your town, ask your NCT lady - those are the only things I can suggest otherwise.

Doh that will teach me for skim reading - you said NOT near Huddersfield! Sorry!

Try this: www.lcgb.org/find-an-ibclc/

They do seem quite concentrated in the South East, so it might be you have to travel a little. Few years ago now but I did know a lady who drove from the Midlands down to Essex to see someone who would deal with her son's tongue tie!

Thanks both. I tried a few people on that lcgb website, but they either didn’t reply or wouldn’t travel to me. I’m going to ask the nct woman who rented me my breast pump. Maybe she can recommend someone.

DarkRoom my DS3 had a very shallow latch due to a lip tie and he wasn't getting enough breast tissue in his mouth to get a good amount of milk. So he would feed for a few minutes then stop, probably exhausted from trying so hard to get only a little bit of milk. Then 20 minutes later he would be looking for another feed. It only took a 15-minute session with a breastfeeding consultant to resolve the issue. With good positioning (nose-to-nipple, tummy-to-mummy, bring baby to the breast not breast to the baby), supportive cushions (I needed something under my feet to get a good latch for some reason), and a bit of practice (I was told to unlatch him whenever he wasn't feeding well and try again) we got there in the end.

Is your hospital baby friendly accredited? There may be a lactation consultant there. Try all local hospitals.

Have you tried different positions for feeding to see if it helps the latch?

Are there any breastfeeding support groups near by? Sure start? Baby cafe? Theatre cafe?

You need to get the tongue re checked by someone. I was told by several hcp including paediatric doctors that Dd had no tongue tie, another hospital said it was a very bad tongue tie, the consultant who snipped it on the NHS could not believe it had not been spotted and dealt with at birth. He also said some hospitals ‘don’t believe in tongue tie’ and just wont snip them. He was fantastic and showed me what to look at, in our case dd tongue was forked at the tip but I imagine it presents in different ways.

Thanks.

No forking with his tongue, or at least not when he sticks it out. I’ve noticed it maybe looking a little forky when he cries though. It’s definitely pointed when he pokes it out of his mouth.

I had the baby out of area, so I don’t know if my local hospital is baby friendly. I’ll have a look at their website. I’ll maybe contact my HV tomorrow and also the NCT woman who rented me the pump to see if she knows a local LC I could use.

The local bf drop in wasn’t terribly helpful, but I’ll maybe go again next week. I’ve missed it this week.

The forking isn't always present, and everyone has some amount of skin there, so it's just whether it prevents movement of the tongue or the gape of the mouth which means it's an issue or not.

How are you feeling today DarkRoom ? Are things getting any easier?

Hi @stunt!

Things went well yesterday. I just did my usual pumping and some breastfeeds in between. No formula needed and I have a fridge full of breast milk, so feeling quite positive today!

I didn’t have time in the end to contact nct and HV yesterday, as my eldest was with me all day. Eldest is off to nursery any minute now, so I’ll try and contact them today, as I’m just not confident I’ll get the right sort of help at the drop in we’ve tried in the past.

I saw some friends yesterday who I was able to talk things through with a bit (between wrangling toddler and and babies). That really helped, as has this thread, so thank you!

I think my plan now, is to try and reduce my pump sessions to just one in the early morning and one in the evening. I think it will take a few weeks to wean me off the pump to get to that stage, but once I’m there it could actually be quite sustainable in terms of compatibility with my family life. When I get there, I’ll just breastfeed in between and top up with formula as needed. If I can get help with latch problem n the meantime that will help too.

That's great, it sounds like you're feeling much happier about things now. I admire your flexible approach to see how it turns out. Too many women get caught up in a guilt trip about baby feeding when we're often just victims of circumstance. Good luck with your plan for moving forwards.

Yeah, I had to be flexible with dc1 as we had so many problems at the beginning that really, mix feeding was the best I could hope for, having always wanted to ebf. I then got so down about how much formula we were using that I was happy to switch completely to ff after just a few months. I’m hoping to keep going with this one though, as I think if I hadn’t gotten so down about it last time, I’d have kept going with mix feeding instead of thinking “oh ffs I might as well just ff at this rate”.

I’d be perfectly happy to continue mix feeding for as long as possible. I don’t see why I can’t make it to a year or more doing a couple of pumps a day and some bfeeding and ff in between. Eventually he’ll be having some solid food too, so maybe we will be able to manage just bfing then. It’s not EBF as I’d planned, but it might work for us .

I haven't rtft but I was bf and pumping but getting miserable amounts , not enough for a top up feed, never mind lots of top ups. So (on doctor's advice) we started supplementing formula 60ml after every breast feed (or 6 times a day I think). That was when baby was 1 month old. Now he's 6 months and he bf all day (as in no formula, not a constant latch!) And he has one 120ml at 7 pm . He bf at night as well. So just because you introduce formula doesn't mean you have to give the same amount forever, it might just get you over a bump

Hi,
Won’t add much as you’ve had lots of comments on here, but if you’re struggling to get IRL support & have a latch issue, you could watch the Jack Newman videos online. I found them really helpful (I mix feed my 18 week old after lots of issues at the start from both me and my DS).
Best of luck with it all x

Just an update to say that I spoke to HV today who said it sounds like there could be a problem with TT and it’s worth ruling that out. I’m going to see them next week and might be able to be referred straight to ENT for snipping. Fingers crossed.

Great update OP. I was going to suggest trying to see a TT specialist privately.
My DS had tongue tie which was spotted by the mature bossy midwife, but she really was brilliant getting it sorted within about 3 days of my leaving hospital. My DIL also had a problem with her DS and couldn't get anyone to properly examine him and was getting very stressed about feeding and being dismissed as a first time mum.
(My DGS is only 4 years younger than my youngest DS).
I don't live nearby so couldn't be with her but persuaded her to pay to see someone privately to thoroughly check and thankfully, they agreed it was a problem and snipped it and DGS started feeding much better immediately. I suspect that if it's not blindingly obvious, it can be easily dismissed by some less experienced HCP's.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this! I had major issues like this with my first and finally just gave up the bf'ing and switched to formula. It was life changing! He is a strong healthy smart 5 year old now. I also have a 4 year old & 9 month old who ended up bf'ing with zero issues. I have NO regrets for formula feeding my first and he is just fine and actually has always been healthier than his brother. Do what works for your family and don't feel bad if bf'ing doesn't work out. What's most important is that you have a happy and fed baby :)

One other thing that can cause babies to find it difficult to breastfeed is hypermobility. Sometimes it can affect the jaw, and cause them not to have the strength to breastfeed for a long time. Bottles are far easier for babies like this. It might be worth getting that checked, if tongue tie is ruled out, though I'm not sure how easy that is to do with a small baby. My DD had this problem, but we didn't discover the reason for her poor latch until she was over 1, and slow to walk.