To knock breastfeeding on the head?

[DarkRoomDarren]

I have a 10 week old baby. We have been doing a mixture of bfing and feeding expressed milk from a bottle (due to poor latch / baby completely refusing to latch quite early on). Occasionally, (usually every few days), we have to use formula, as we run out of breast milk and he’s still hungry after breastfeeds. He hasn’t settled for longer than about 20 minutes after a breastfeed and, usually, it’s even sooner than that when he is hungry again.

I’ve noticed that, the more I bf him, the more we need formula; I was making a concerted effort to bf more this weekend. This meant I got less milk when I pumped and we ended up using more formula.

Aibu to think this is stupid and I should just continue pumping and forget about bfing? I had wanted to ebf, but he just doesn’t settle after I feed him.

Dh thinks I should go the other way now and stop pumping, just bf and accept that he’ll have to have formula after every feed, but I don’t really see the merit in that.

Currently, I have to be in the house to pump, as I use a big, hospital grade, double pump. I do this three times a day, plus one in the night. I think dh thinks I’ll be able to get out and about more if I stop pumping, but bfing, followed by a formula top up every feed isn’t exactly easy on the hoof either.

Any thoughts? Many TIA.

And thanks @silver too!

Top up feeds unless a doctor has advised it is a really bad idea with such a young baby. Also pumping should wait until you get really established with successful breastfeeding.

In my experience (bf support) most (not all) women who stop bfing have been mixed feeding and I think it confuses the baby. The baby needs to work at breastfeeding, bottles are obviously easier for them so they take more in. Lots of mums say their baby is still hungry, so they offer formula - it's hardly ever necessary to do that if you are bfing properly.

You need to allocate some time to really getting breastfeeding going properly - no pumping and no formula. Your baby will learn how to empty the breast properly and your supply will regulate itself.

Get some proper advise. Find a drop-in clinic or ring ABM or NCT or La Leche. Your GP can refer you to the breastfeeding support people too.

I know what you mean @gruffalo. Dc1 and I were very poorly when she was a newborn and I always put our crap bfing experience down to that. With dc2 (the baby) I was determined to get the help we needed so that we could establish bfing this time. I begged to stay an extra night in hospital so I could have help with feeding. They let me stay but ignored me the whole time and dismissed me when I said ds wasn’t feeding properly. He then ended up in NNU (for a non-feeding problem) and they said he had to be topped up with formula as I wouldn’t be there to bf. That’s when I started pumping like mad. Got out of hospital and immediately asked for help from whoever we could find, but still things have gone a bit tits up (no pun intended). Sigh sigh.

I’ve had problems BFing with each of my 3DC. With DC2 I was in a very similar situation to you. From what you are saying - and my own experience - it’s only worth trying to go back to more direct feeding if you make a concerted effort to get the latch sorted. And I mean a completely focus on it every feed, with no shields (whuch you can tell only make it more difficult). Ar ten weeks he can learn an improved latch but it’ll take work. Getting a private lactation consultant to come and work with you at home is the best way. Expensive, but absolutely saved breastfeeding with DC3 (who had her tongue tie snipped, it didn’t help, but intense support and practice with the latch did), she’s been EBF and still going now she’s on food.

I exclusively pumped for one of my DC and like you, I found it fine. Used a bit of formula if I ran behind on EBM, but not much.

You know that your baby isn’t draining the breast, and what your DH suggests will result in mastitis, a drop in milk supply (as it won’t be getting effectively drained) and before you know it you’ll be exclusively formula feeding. Which is fine, if that’s what you are consciously choosing, but not if your DH’s poor advice spells the end of your milk production before you are ready. Good luck!

Of course it's expected you'll be staying in more with a newborn and will have less time to devote to your other child. Don't start feeling guilty about that too.

The fact that you mentioned you couldn't even contemplate a car journey because you'd be away from the breast pump made me think you're practically chained to the blooming pump or feeding baby! That's very restricting, difficult and sounds like no way to live.

You may find switching to formula feeding is a huge weight off and you can start enjoying your baby and toddler.
My point was, don't feel guilty or a failure for considering that option. In the grand scale of things, it doesn't matter, all that matters is that everyone's fed and happy.

As others have said, don't feel guilty for switching over to formula feeding, if that is what is going to work best for you and your family. Your mental health is important, not just to you but to your family as a whole.

I will say though, I've had days when my baby seemed to never get full. Some afternoons/evenings I've fed from three in the afternoon until 9.30 at night when he finally falls asleep, with brief pauses for a nappy change and a ten minute nap. I just make myself comfortable, and keep putting him on the boob, switching sides whenever he comes off for a few minutes. My DP has brought me food, cut up my dinners, made sure to cook things that can be eaten one handed, etc. I wouldn't still be breastfeeding without that support, and that ability to just nest on the couch and feed while the world moved around me. If you do want to keep going, try to make the time to really focus on it, and don't allow yourself to feel guilty for that.

I don’t feel quite ready to switch to ff completely, which is just as well seeing as my boobs might explode if I did it immediately!

The toss up I suppose is between;

1. continuing to bf, reduce pumps and add in more formula. I just feel that would be the beginning of the end though and bfing might never take off for us, whereas I know I can feed him almost exclusively breast milk if I keep pumping.
2. keep pumping and just do bfs as a bit of a hobby / bonding thing when we feel like it.

I’m leaning towards 2. Dh thinks 1 - he’s not insisting I do it by any means. I just know that’s what he thinks I should do.

Can I ask why "continue to breastfeed, reduce pumps and maintain/reduce formula" is not an option?

Or 3) have a go at just bf on demand for a couple of days to see what happens? Is that an option?

We used milk matters in Huddersfield (I think)

Would recommend them if you're close by, if not they may be able to recommend someone closer?

It wasn't an instant fix, ds would only feed lying down for a couple of days, and it was so for a few days while he re learned how to feed. But after a week or so everything was so so much better, and like I said we're still going strong now.

Good luck whatever you decide!

I can’t stop pumping as, even when we feed non stop, I end up with lumpy, sore boobs. He doesn’t see to be able to empty my breasts as it is. I’m assuming that’s due to poor latch, but I’m just guessing.

When we tried to focus on bfing this past weekend, while also pumping in between, I found that I got less milk when I pumped but he also wouldn’t settle after bfs, so we ended up giving him his first formula in days.

If I just stop pumping and feed on demand I’m worried I’ll give myself mastitis if he can’t empty my breasts; especially on the dodgy nipple side. I’ve had it before with dc1 and it was horrid. I had to stay in bed for three days as I had such a horrible fever. Also I’m then worried the supply I’ve managed to build up will also disappear so we will end up switching to formula before I really want to.

I think if we’re going to focus on bfing I really need help with sorting out the latch before I stop or reduce pumping.

Thanks @espresso. I’m near Reading sadly, so not near Huddersfield.

If anyone knows of any qualified lcs round here though, please let me know! Especially, would love someone to come to us at home. So far, nobody I’ve contacted is able to.

If you do wish to stop pumping and breast feeding then it is possible to reduce it gradually and your supply will stop (without breasts exploding)!
I mean you will do that at some point unless you still want to be pumping when he's 12?

It sounds as though you want to keep expressing milk for him to take in a bottle. That's fine and I think you'll be happier when you've made a decision. If you're happy for now, go with it.

I think your baby is a clever cloggs and has figured out that a bottle is easier .

I also think he may be smack bang in the middle of a growth spurt hence the non stop feeding.

If you want to continue bf, feed feed feed - in bed, on sofa, on couch, etc

If you want to formula feed - you’ve done a great job, switch and enjoy the next season.

I wouldn't suggest stopping expressing. But you could look to reduce the number of times you do express, very gradually. Or reduce the time that you express for at each session. You would then increase the breastfeeding to make up for the reduced expressing.

Forgive me if you have already had this suggested, but to help your baby latch there is something called the exaggerated latch or "flipple" technique. You can also use your breast pump briefly to pull out the nipple on the left hand side (I think it was), or use something like a Latch Assist to do the same.

Perhaps you have a low supply? How much are you able to pump?

The more you FF your baby the less milk your body thinks it needs to produce. My baby fusses on the breast for hours at a time.

You seem to be going through an awful lot of hard work, worry and hassle over something that really doesn’t matter much in the long term.
I’m a doctor, (and will probably be excommunicated for heresy by the BF zealots!) but I formula fed both my children, and weaned them at 8 weeks. They slept all night from 8 weeks, thrived, and are now healthy intelligent graduates in their late 20’s.

Choose whatever works for you and lets you have a life, plus gives you time with your older child. Don’t sweat the small stuff - so many mums use BF failures as sticks to beat themselves or others with.
Good luck, and enjoy being a mum!

I pump anywhere between 180 and 300 mls per pump. About a litre per day. Beginning to wonder if the problem is that he’s only getting half a feed as he struggles so much on the left side?

Ha @bab! I have a doctor friend who did similar. If you only had one dc, I’d wonder if I know you! Also, my dad’s a doctor who was ff from about a week old. He’s v sceptical about some of the benefits of bf too. I don’t know why I feel compelled to keep going, but I do. I know it probably doesn’t make that much difference in the long run. Must be hormones!

I don't think it's helpful to tell women that breastfeeding doesn't matter much at all. That devalues it totally and makes it seem that any woman who persists in the face of any difficulties is foolish and a martyr for doing so.

I'm not sure that I would take @Babdoc seriously, if she is suggesting moving to solid food at 8 weeks is a great idea.

Nobody's said Foolish or Martyr. Don't use a bf failure as a stick to beat yourself with is excellent advice.

I don't think the example of weaning at 8 weeks is something anyone is advising. It was recommended to wean early 20 years ago.

I think the point being is that you don't have to tie yourself in knots over breast feeding when it's negatively impacting on yours and your family's life and making you miserable, and consuming your whole day.
Breast feeding isn't more important than being happy and being able to carry on with family life.

Hello, are you on the breastfeeding Berkshire fb page? Just seen you are near Reading. They’ll definitely be able to signpost you to some real life help. Good luck.

Thanks @winter. I’m not on fb! Maybe I need to join for this sort of thing.

Totally agree that breastfeeding isn't more important than being happy and family life.

It's this attitude that if you don't stop and swap to formula when faced with issues then you're somehow beating yourself up, martyring yourself and being foolish to pursue something that definitely doesn't matter and doesn't make any difference.

Goodness knows why the PP mentioned weaning onto solids at 8 weeks, in the context of her being a doctor. I'm sure it wasn't meant to be a recommendation or an endorsement.

Don't use a bf failure as a stick to beat yourself

A failure? Poor choice of language.

@DarkRoomDarren you're getting more per pump than I am, even if I pump first thing in the morning I only get about 150ml. So I don't think it's a supply issue. What position are you holding baby in? I started out cradling my ds, but he kept coming off the latch and a midwife suggested going rugby ball style (under the arm with feet behind you) and that worked so much better for us, he latched on for much longer and stays on instead of coming off every few seconds.

Sorry if someone has already suggested that to you, I'm trying to think of ways to get him draining you more! I've had mastitis too and it's horrendous so I completely understand why you're wary!