HELP! No one believes me but there is ^something^ ^not^ ^quite^ ^right^... !!

[Mossie]

First of all - sorry - I know I've hardly stopped moaning about bfing since I had my baby three and a bit weeks ago but I am sure something is not right.

1. He never comes off the breast by himself. If I left him there he would stay on for hours. I have to take him off.

2. Moments after I take him off, he cries again and smacks his lips together like he's hungry. I put him back on... he won't come off by himself.

3. He rarely sleeps; he has bags under his eyes poor lad.

4. I bought the book Bestfeeding and read about a foremilk/ hindmilk imbalance and the symptoms of a baby with this describe him almost exactly, right down to his ridiculously runny / explosive poos (sorry if tmi). But their solution is to get him to stay on until he finishes all the hindmilk and comes off by himself. Which he never does.

5. I have phoned NCT line and ABM line and neither of them really had much advice, NCT advised switch feeding but it didn't work, ABM just said to keep him on until he finished. He doesn't finish!!

6. No one believes anything is wrong. Dh thinks I am obsessing and that I may have pnd. Mil, yesterday, finally agreed there may be something wrong. But suggested that the solution may end up being.... giving him formula for a few feeds and bf for the others so at least he gets foremilk and therefore some benefits of bfing. I would prefer not to do this but will as a last resort.

7. I am going to a LLL drop in on Tuesday, but I can't wait until then really, I need someone to believe that there is something wrong, otherwise I'm going to start questioning my own sanity.

Please please please please someone tell me that I might have a point? And if anyone has any advice that isn't to put him on formula, please advise. Will he be all right until Tuesday without any additional feeds if my suspicions are right?

Sorry this is so ridiculously long!

Hi,

This sounds very much like DD3. She virtually never came off herself, and I felt exactly as you do.

What I did find that helped was that whenever I decided "right I am giving up, I will buy formula on Saturday" things would be fantastic until Saturday, she would feed fanstasticaly, her suck would be so strong, she would gulp away and she would stop herself awake, rather than drifting off to sleep and using me as a comforter - at least during het day (the cluster feeding at night was still a bit of an issue).

Saturday would come - I would change my mind about formula as she seemed to be bf so well and the cycle would start again....

Anyway what I put it down to was that I was more relaxed about bf (I don't necessarily mean relaxed physically - but relaxed about the concept/principal/emotional comitments...) when I had decided that I was just going to get thru till Saturday and then the 'thing' that was causing me so much angst would be all over. Even when I knew that it was miles easier when I was relaxed about bf - I couldn't actively relax about it. I still permanently felt there was something wrong about my technique etc....

In the end I decided to see a bfc, but was in one of my relaxed patches - so I was a bit generalistic "I've got problems that come and go, but things are good at the mo" combined with the fact that DD3 slept thru the whole meeting so she couldn't see her feed - and she didn't help much cos she didn't have anything specific to work with.
As the cycle started again, I wrote down my issues - like you have in the OP - went to see her again with my specific questions and concerns- she was more helpful and more reassuring and things did get better from there - In my case she didn't really do or say anything that I didn't already know - I think she gave me the one to one reassurance that there was nothing wrong....she saw me feed - so I knew that was OK.

Hope you can stick it out until Tues...make a pact with yourself that you will stick it out until Tues, but give yourself the emotional freedom that you will give up if things don't get better after you LLL session...you sound as tho you are doing a great job...

Mossie, only just seen this thread because I can't seem to get any pc time ATM. My DD is 8 weeks tomorrow and still on a permanent suckathon. I long for 10 mins peace to go to the loo!

9 til 1am Mossie?! now i am

Evenhope - my ds is coming up for 8 weeks and I too am stuck on the sofa wondering how big my bladder can get... Glad I am not the only one suffering!

Awww mossie! Just seen this as have been over on the wirral at my bros house for most of the weekend.

Sorry that I didn't get to come and see you last week

You are doing great - hang in there!

When are you seeing LLL tomorrow? Fancy a visit? (am at work but can move my lunch hour to anytime), or if you and DH want a break I could come and walk your dogs and your DS at the same time?

Mossie - only just saw this and can only echo what everyone else has said - elliot was exactly the same and NEVER came off on his own and was attached to my boob almost continually. He still doesn't come off on his own like he's supposed to and he's nearly 8 weeks! I have to keep an eye on when he's just suckling for comfort and remove him or he falls asleep. He's a very sucky boy.

My mum went out and bought some formula and bottle when I was asleep after a particularly bad days when Elliot was 3 and a bit weeks. I was really upset and felt like she was criticising me but I let her give him the milk as I was so worried about him. I wish I hadn't though as he gobbled it all down but got dreadful wind afterwards. I know she was just trying to help though as she was so worried by upset I was getting but it actually made me feel worse. So I expect that's why your DP and MIL are insisting - they just can't bear to see you getting so upset.

I felt like I was going completely mad and losing my mind but going to see the BF counsellor transformed things. She sorted my latch and showed me how to tell when he was feeding and just suckling. He started feeding much more efficiently and I got some time off. Until then, I was this -- close to giving up and switching to FF. I really hope seeing the LLL counsellor will have the same effect for you.

I really sympathise - I found it a horribly lonely scary time. But I promise you it does get better so just keep telling yourself that.

Sazzy in my more lucid moments I know they are trying to help me because they can see how upset I am and they think I'm not thinking straight (I'm certainly not acting like I'm thinking straight atm iyswim) but then other times I just get angry.

Still I've managed to put them off giving him a top up so far... not quite sure how!

NSF would be lovely to see you tomorrow is really busy (drs then lll) but any other day would be marvellous!!!

SexyMadSozzleder the "pact" you describe that's exactly what I've done myself in my mind, if Tuesday doesn't help me then I'm giving myself the freedom to reconsider, but I'm keeping doing what I can until then.

Again thank you everyone for your help and support it's just what I needed to get me through.

Set short goals too. I said 6 weeks then 8 wks then 12 weeks. I am 10 m in and still bfing! Plus as well as the voracious feeder I had thrush, mastitis twice and a big hole in my nipple through a bad latch! Sheer bloody mindedness kept me going and now I love it! Keep the faith love!

Hope things are going a bit better Mossie. Good luck for tomorrow.

Remember that some babies would like to suck for eternity. Demand feeding is not always mean fix the baby on every time he cries. It is a partnership. If he has fed for ages then hand him over to someone else and get a break. I remember doing that in the middle of the night a good few times

imo, short of threatened actually bodily harm, I think everyone should really butt out with helpful home-diagnoses of pnd until at least - say 10wks.

At the moment, of course your hormones will be all over the place, and you'll be under stress. you have to just hold on for the ride/

Say to your dh (mil?) for unquestioning support in the immediate short term. Your gp/hv will set you straight if you're way off, in any case.

btw - your baby sounds v tiring but well on the normal spectrum.

tracy hogg's baby whisperer rules - but no earlier than 10wks or so.

All this feeding is great for bonding and building up milk supply- which will make what follows (whatever type of parenting you subscribe to) much easier.

Mossie - good luck today - let us know how it goes

[hugs]

Well Bertie is finally having a kip, having been up feeding most of the night...

Looking forward to today, I am amazed I got through the last three days without dh pushing his bloody top up theory on me, but I did. I am tired though! Bit of concealer will work wonders.

I'm making mil come with me, because I think it would do me good to have someone on side that dh listens to. The mw agreed with them that we should top him up, so hopefully the lll woman will say something different. (I'm also hoping she might help me learn how to latch him on properly lying down as at least that would let me rest at night!)

I've also agreed to go to the dr's tomorrow to talk about pnd and if I have it or if I've just been mithered so bloody much that it's no wonder I've been tearful and mardy...

Thanks everyone for your support!

Mossie - why did the MW say to top him up? just curious

Good luck with the LLL today

Mossie - this probably sounds really obvious - but what happens if you let him snuggle skin to skin on your dh's chest? ds2 will often settle on dh (or even on 5 year old ds1 on the rare occasions he stays still long enough), whereas with me he can obviously smell milk and just starts rooting again.

ds1 was just like Bertie sounds - and I was in the same state you are at this stage with him. By the time he was 3 weeks old I'd not had more than 1/2 an hour's continuous sleep since he was born, and he was feeding for 45 minutes of each hour and then sleeping for about 15 minutes before he'd wake again. In the end what resolved it was just ONE bottle of formula - which contrary to what the HV's were telling us didn't mean he'd never take the breast again. But that bottle was given to him by dh when I was asleep as I was so exhausted that for once ds1's screaming didn't wake me. Naturally when I found out I went ballistic at him for doing it against my wishes, because I actually believed what I was being told that it meant the end for bf. But do you know what - just that one bottle meant a longer sleep for both me and ds1 and gave my milk a chance to build up enough to give him a proper feed next time, and start creating some gaps between feeds so that both of us could actually sleep for more than a few minutes at a time. After that we were back on track with the bf. I know it's not what you want to do, but please believe that if it comes to it ONE bottle won't mean the end of the world, and it could just break the cycle you're in and let you get things back on an even keel.

Hope it is going well Mossie - am thinking of you

Just a quick note as he is angling for a feed... Well, me and mil went to the lll woman today and it was brilliant, said most of it on the postnatal thread, but no she didn't have a magic wand, just a few good suggestions, and really chivvied me along. Mil took notice of what she was saying, too (so hopefully dh will too, my main reason for taking her)!

Forgot to say, Lunar you are right, he settles much better with dh and mil than with me, I think that was part of what made me a bit actually but it does make sense!

Hooray!

I am glad LLL woman was good.

So.... Thursday then? Lunchtimeish?

Thursday lunch would be great, I'm off to the baby clinic at about two so before that would be wonderful! I'm in number 36!

at meet up !

Mossy - just wanted to say its really good your MIL went along. Its great that she is so supportive generally (being around) and even better that you now have her on board and taking an interest in supporting you BF

Well I went to the baby clinic this afternoon and he has put on 4 oz since last week, so I'm doing it properly!

Having said that, since seeing the LLL woman on Tuesday, ds has been much more settled and content! I didn't do that much that was different, a few things regarding his latch but apart from that I've just been more relaxed and he seems to have benefited!

Congratulations . That's great news, I rememeber that feeling of it all starting to feel like it was coming together really well. Amazing what a difference seeing a bf makes, I think sometimes it can just boost your confidence in your body as much as anything.

Is your dh feeling more positive about it now too?

I have now met Mossie and babyMoss, and have to report that he is darn squidgy and completely edible
He is very strong too (very good head control).

And he was an angel while I was there .