please help - new mum 3 days - going demented over inability to breast feed

[weeonion]

oh folks - feeling bloody miserable and inadequate here. just home hospital tonight - have had a pretty awful time trying to get her to feed for loads of reasons.
1/ real diffs from start to latch on - turns out i have 2 flat nipples. these got chewed by baby with a vry strong such apparently. now have 2 bleedng, cracked and sore nipples.

2/ she sucks for 20 minsand then falls asleep and comes off boob. wants fed again 1/2 hr later and this has been constant for past 2 days. she will not settle and is always hungry. i dont seem to be able to get her to actually feed for long enough

3/hospital gave her 2 formula cup feeds to settle her - she gobbled it down. feel distruaght that she is so hungry and upset and i cant settle her.

4/ they started me on shields but still in agony and feel that i am not getting anywhere as she is not getting enough from me.

5//i cant feed off one breast - the nipple is just too flat so i am not meant to be expressing off it - no milk coming out however.

i feel miserable. she is so beautiful and all i want to do is breast feed but i dont want to be sitting crying all day.

sorry for long ramble.
any suggestions?

hi weeonion, congrats on your lovely daughter...
first of all do you have any lansinoh cream? that's well worth getting. and google dr jack newman, he's a breastfeeding guru and he's put clips of him helping women to bf, so you might get some interesting insights there. also look out for 'breast compression' on his website, that's a way of massaging the breast as you feed to help the milk come out better.
i'm not an expert, but dr newman is, so have alook for his stuff.
also can you hand express at all?
i hope someone more expert comes along soon. if you feel that you're not getting anywhere i cannot recomment Too Highly that you phone the BFing unit at the queen mums, they are better than the PRM bfing support people, and one of them worked with dr newman. phone tomorrow, weeonion, don't leave it too late to get help is my advice. (but also don't stress yourself out... so it is tricky )

try here

your milk will probably come in tomorrow. I had my fourth baby 5 weeks ago. My nipples hurt for a week or two.
At first my baby sucked constantly just getting collostrum and I wished I could fill him up more but he was fine.
there is loads of good advice on here about bfeeding and also, give yourself a chance. It takes everyone a while to settle down with the breast feeding, it can be hard at first but once you get over the first bit, it is very rewarding.

Hello Weeonion. You poor thing, you sound so much like how I was! Are you able to get a lactation consultant where you are? I was in Melbourne and contacted the Breast Feeding Association and they sent a saint over.....a few times...until I got it right. Good luck and I hope you aren't too sore. Tilba x

Hi WO & so sorry the BF isn't going so well,

I think the frequent feeding thing is common at this stage and although it feels like they are worrying at an empty breast, in fact it's stimulating the milk to come in.

It might be worth trying to hand express a little before feeds to soften the area around the nipple & make it easier for baby to get a good mouthful of breast. I also found using shields more comfortable if the baby went onto them mouth wide open rather than sucking their way on IYSWIM.

Definitely get expert help, I had a similar experience first time and tried to troubleshoot it on my own, which was a mistake - a good lactation consultant will be able to turn things around for you. I've found it really hard again this time despite a more compliant baby and having really good help has made the difference I think.

oh darling you've got baby blues and your nips hurt, your bound to be a bit wibbly. Have you tried lansinoh cream. its brilliant cos u can wear it whilst breastfeeding and its so sooothing. Your milk will be inproperly today so you'll be able to express soon.

I also have flat nips and ended up wearing nipple shields by medula for 6 mnths.not ideal but at least it meant i could breastfeed

also the electric pump helped get the old nips out a bit

drink lots of water too that helps. it will get better, i promise!!!x

I cried all the time for the first five days I think (well ok, maybe first five months). Especially on Day Four when I felt so useless as milk had come in, boobs were huuuuge (sadly not anymore ) and I couldn't get DS to latch on. However I didn't have the flat nipple issue just couldn't get the hang of bf-ing and even when I did he always fell asleep. Hope Aitch's info helps you out.

Congratulations on your new little girl, it is not your fault and you are NOT inadequate. Hope you are feeling a bit better this morning. X

First congratulations Weeonion!!

In answer to 2) I had / have exactly the same problem. Second Dr. Jack Newman, also I called the NCT breastfeeding helpline, who advised me to keep him awake while feeding by stripping him down to his nappy, which does help a little. Also to feed him from boob 1, and then change his nappy inbetween to wake him up and feed him from boob 2. Seems to work about 70% of the time.

In answer to 3) My ds was taken into scbu for the first night because he had the cord wrapped around him and he needed monitoring. He would not latch on for love nor money so they gave him formula cup feeds for the first day and a half. I felt exactly the same, like I was a failure because my body could not feed him. Made worse by a mw who (probably thinking she was helping) told me it wasn't my fault, that some babies just couldn't and never learned to latch on. After she said that I cried literally all night non stop, I had so wanted to bf and the thought he might not be able to... so it is perfectly normal to feel distraught if you feel unable to do something you have set your heart on.

Fwiw, my advice is to keep on asking for help until you find someone out there who can help you, there are lots of numbers on this thread I started a couple of days ago . I found the NCT line most help.

here's the QM number 0141 2010550, just ask for the BFing specialists. they can talk to you on the phone if you like, but if you can manage to get to see them they will help you soooooo much. Rosemary has Magic Hands that can Fix Any Latch.

don't panic weeonion, i felt similar to you and did not realise that colostrom was not filling, i was feeing for what seemed like 22 hours a day for the first 3/4 days then gradually less and less until after a week my dd was enjoying filling up on her lovely milk!
I had sore nips and pain for about 2 weeks and found that 'natural nipple butter' by 'earth mama angel baby' was amazing!!!
wish you luck!

Oh darling!

Here are some useful sites and numbers for you:

www.laleche.org.uk/ 0845 120 2918
www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/ 0870 900 8787
www.nct.org.uk/ 0870 444 8708
www.abm.me.uk/ 0870 401 7711

Okay? Hang in there darling. It will be sorted and it will work. She's simply calling for the milk that she needs.

You need to babymoon. Be nekkid with your baby darling. Lots and lots of skin to skin. Take time and relax. There's nothing more important than this time with your baby. Email if you want to.

How are things now, WO?

WO, how are you now? Are things any better? I found it SO difficult to get bf going with DD1. I cried and cried for the first few days because of the pain and my inability to do it. I wanted to give up so many times. But I persevered and got lots of help from my NHS breastfeeding clinic and la leche. I found the MWs a bit hit and miss as they often gave contradictory advice, but some were great.

I don't really have any extra advice on top of what's already been said here. Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and know just how hard it is. FWIW once I got going and the bf was OK (not great but bearable) I booked a weekend away at a health spa with my mum and sister four months hence to celebrate giving up bf. I thought if I could get to 4 months then I'd have given DD1 a really good start. Anyway, when the four months came I went to the spa but so didn't want to give up bf that I had to keep going off to express, LOL. It's horrid at the beginning, but it really does get better.

Even now on my fourth, when you'd think I'd know what I was doing, I'm still finding the first couple of weeks hard going. Hang in there, you're doing a fab job. Get as much help as you can. Lather on the lansinoh.

The Avent nipple cream is also good if you can't get hold of Lansinoh - it's also lanolin-based.

I had a badly-cracked nipple, but the pain got better gradually. I never thought it would heal, but heal it did after about three weeks, and now it feels fine.

There's light at the end of the tunnel...hang in there! I really wanted to throw in the towel at first, but I'm really glad I didn't.

I found it very frustrating that in all the guides they don't acknowledge how painful/difficult it can be at first, but I think these threads show what it's like in real life. Hard at first, but worth it.

WO - Oh, please don't feel inadequate! For all that we pretend we are a pro-bfing nation, the truth is that the hospitals don't naturalise it (I don't really mean make it more 'natural, man'). For example, newborns aren't really 'supposed' to be settled, so why give them cups of formula to settle them??? I don't get that, I really don't. If it is genuinely needed (or if people choose to go down that route), fine - but just for fractiousness? Odd. You are then competing with something it isn't appropriate to compete with, like a javelin thrower having to go up against whoever is the modern Linford Christie in a sprint.

Have you tried swaddling? I can't tell you how much difference that made to DS's latch. You needn't swaddle really tightly if you don't like to, but having them as a captive audience kind of thing really helps them to develop good practice. And if you need to get a bad latch off quickly, little finger hooked inside the mouth: works every time and is painless, unlike the instinctive pulling off.

And whether you breastfeed or whether you don't, you are NOT an inadequate mother.
xxx

I hope you're ok W.O.

hey wo xxx

sorry to hear you're having probs bf. I echo what others on here say. I really think you should get someone along in person to help you (a breatfeeding counsellor or something similar). I have a friend who's one (wish I could post her up to you for a couple of hours) and she dropped round yesterday and watched me feed and helped me with one or two tips for a better latch etc. I was really surprised what a difference having someone with a trained eye helping me made and not just me trying to read my breastfeeding book while balancing a wriggling ds on my knee and trying to get him to latch on!

You will get there lovely and you'll be feeding beautifully in no time. Make sure you're resting and relaxed and don't you dare be hard on yourself! You're doing really well. Let us know how you're getting on xxxxx

Hey WO, sorry to hear you're having problems. It can be so miserable to start with, but it will get better. I couldn't get the hang of it AT ALL with ds1, and with ds2 it's worked much better, but only after a couple of weeks of agony, and lots of tears. The fact that she's got a good suck is a great start though (even if your nips don't agree ).

A couple of things that helped me:

lansinoh, as the others say - it really works

I called LLL and spoke to a lovely lady in Glasgow who made some useful suggestions, so definitely ask for some advice. Can't remember where you had DD, but wouldn't recommend parentcraft at SGH, who weren't brilliant when I had problems with ds1.

re latch-on, someone on here said to think of your breast as a sandwich and to hold it like that to get baby latched on. I'm not explaining as well as whoever it was, but it really helped me in the early weeks somehow.

Anyway, keep us posted - hang on in there.

the midwife came out on the wed morning - by which time i was in such a state, as was a very hungry baby. my milk had came in with a vengence and i was in agony with rock hard boobs. i wsa sent straight to the hospital to use the electric pump - 3 hours on with 40mls to show fo rit. the boobs were still hard but they thought they might be soft enough for her to latch on and get feeding. came home and she couldnt latch on. i spent the whole night with no sleep in teh bath - running hot water over my boobs and trying to pump. the nipples are completely raw, so bad that pieces of them are going into the pump!

i now have mastitis in one boob, red, sore and hot. i have started on antibiotics for it but feel poorly.

at the end of it all - i have decided that enough is enough. i do not want to be flinching each time my baby needs fed and starting to dread hearing a murmur from her, i have spent my early days in tears/ agony. this is not made easier by knowing what peoples attitiudes will be and i do feel a failure. i keep reading that you just have to persever but i dont feel i can. this has absolutly broken my heart but feel i need to feed my baby in a less stressed way. i have spent all of this evening crying but dont want this to be my memory of our first days together as a family.
i also know that people say it will get easier but the state my boobs ar in - i dont think i can do it. they are so engorged and the nipples have nearly totally disappeared.

i just want to start being a mummy - not a crying wreck. xoox

Hi,
I have ds who is 9 months now, and i had terrible trouble at first. Apparently i have flat nipples.

He was fine in hospital but then the day we brought him out, he decided to stop feeding off me. I luckily had the support of my mother in law who was staying, and she suggested trying nipple shields, which i did and they worked. It did hurt but that does go after a few weeks . I weaned DS of nipple shields at about 2 weeks and he bf perfectly since.

I would try the shields and see if you can get support from relatives. I think the problem i had with ds is that i was stressed, so he was then probably stressed and then won't feed and it is a circle.

I gave up BF at 6 months and he is now on formula - and i think he is now more settled on bottles. If you decide to try formula, do not beat yourself up about it - i personally think there is too much pressure to bf!

hope things work out for you.

ps have you tried cabbage leaves in your bra - apparently supposed to help x

sweetheart, it doesn't matter what other people think - it's what you want to do that matters. The soreness is absolutely dreadful isn't it? I remember dreading my DD needing milk and I would curl my toes and clench my fists and brace myself and it hurt like hell. Bits of nip flying off, blood, scabs - how could it be natural I thought!

I have never found expressing a pain free experience either!

I would say that it took about 1 week for the pain to ease and about 2 weeks for my DD to become a pro at latching.

I would say that if you would like to formula feed then go for it and if you would like to breastfeed, hassle everyone you can to help you and know that it is highly likely to be a case of holding your nerve for a short time while you get yourself sorted.

Oh Weeonion - I'm a newbie here but I see you've just posted. A big hug to you. I don't know if this will make you feel any better but a huge proportion of new mums (me included) were crying wrecks in the first days/weeks. BF is HARD WORK (for some). Babies are HARD WORK. You are not, repeat, not a failure. You're a totally normal caring mum who wants the best for her bub.

The others have given great tips - I'd echo the ones that suggest getting a breastfeeding counsellor to help you. MW have (obviously) had the training but perhaps not as intensively as a BF counsellor. The MW has rounds to do and may not be able to spend the amount of time supporting you that you need.

I'm a second-time mum. First time (Nov 04) I had huge problems too. Long difficult birth then baby that wouldn't/couldn't feed and flat nipples on boobs that would do page 3 proud. Despite lots of effort my LO couldn't latch cos there was nothing to grab and she defied all the books that said they're "born with a sucking reflex". She didn't suck! The solution for me was as I think a pp mentioned. I used nipple shields - these gave me a 'shape' that she could latch on to & pulled me into the correct shape. After a couple of weeks I was much less flat and gradually weaned off the plastic to skin again.

Whatever you decide my dear, ignore anyone who judges you. You say in your profile you're an organised and on top of things person - I am too. When stuff like this happens that is so apparently beyond your control it's dreadfully hard to deal with (well it is for me - I LIKE having a clean house but it's nigh on impossible right now!). Please don't be harsh on yourself - be kind, I'm sure you would be to someone else in your situation. The helplines out there by the various BF networks are there for distraught mums to USE if you can bear to do it?

My thoughts are with you - sending lots of good luck vibes over the airwaves.

Ick x

Try not to worry - it's very early days! I'm not exaggerating when I say I didn't get the feeding going for 5 weeks with my first one - and now she's a healthy happy 10 year old. In the end I saw a (private) 'lactation consultation' who was the only person who helped me to sit properly and latch on properly.

(I meant consultant.)