Down about formula top ups. Is there a way back to fill bf?

[Jellybabie3]

So my DS is 7 days old. He lost 13% body weight after birth which was thought to be a result of a stressful birth (ended in c section) and me losing alot of blood so having low milk. He remained in hospital where we were forced to implement a feeding plan which involved bf, 45 min express and formula top up every 3 hours. Ds quickly put on weight and was discharged. He is now 8% underweight. Now we are home we really want to focus on bf. We are gutted we had to add formula. But my DS is such a hungry baby and i am feeding him all day and he is still hungry and agitated. I feel like a dairy cow, not a mum and he is still not full. We give him approx 70ml top up of formula before bed. Is there a way out of this? I am worried he will lose more weight and at the same time so so sad that i cant provide fully for him. I am also expressing a couple of times a day but this is usually only about 40ml.

Any help/advice? I really dont want DS to go off bf

I have no experience of this but...

I read somewhere that babies don't have to work as hard to feed from a bottle and therefore prefer to feed from the bottle as it takes less work.
Would this have any impact?

Yes we are switch and compression feeding. I'm still in bed witg DS skin to skin (he's asleep) and DH so we are babymooning

Also the introduction if formula was made by the hosp....it wasnt our plan

When is your next HV visit where your DS will be weighed?

I would just try and breastfeed as much as you can between now and then. Offer the breast before any formula top up. Are you using free flow teats on the bottles? You could consider trying a different teat like the Medela Calma ones which are not free flow - the baby had to work harder to get the milk and it's an action that is a little more like the breastfeeding action.

OP. Please don't think that a top up of formula will dry your supply up basically, ignore the PND inducing scaremongering in here and everywhere else. It won't. You're doing everything right - offering breast, and then topping up if baby still wants more. Expressing is bloody hard work. What's most important is that baby is fed and doesn't lose weight. Keep going. Ebf is great, but formula is not poison and works for millions of babies. Fed is best. And o say this as someone who ebfd a d is still bfing my 2yo now.

I have mw wednesday and hv thursday. He has munchkin latch bottles which make him work alot harder than the nuk ones tgr hosp gave us

Agree with Bertrand OP - great advice.

You don’t ‘run out’ of milk, btw, it’s supply and demand. Your DS should be feeding when not sleeping, this will help to increase supply. Also, feeding lots at night when prolactin is higher is very helpful for supply.

I had to top up for a bit due to 15% weight loss and then did get back to full breastfeeding when DD was around 2 weeks old but I know a friend who struggled for ages and then just made her peace with mixed feeding. The most important thing to do is to stick to the medical advice you've been given until DS has been weighed again and is gaining weight well, then you may be able to gradually reduce the formula under midwife's advice. People on here will suggest you just drop the formula and feed feed feed but IMO that's irresponsible advice for a baby that has been hospitalised for losing too much weight. It would also be good to get a breastfeeding counsellor to look at your latch if you can.

OP you haven't answered my question about a tongue tie assessment - have you seen a lactation consultant or breastfeeding consultant? If not I suggest you go to a breastfeeding drop-in or find a lactation consultant and see them ASAP. They can rule out tongue tie and also check latch as others have said.

The midwives and health visitors don't have enough training or knowledge to help you with this unfortunately. Not unless it's a specialist midwife with extra training in infant feeding.

breastfeeding counsellor not consultant

Ok will look into getting the latch reviewed

Feeding constantly is entirely normal. It doesn't mean you don't have enough milk it just means they are bulging your supply. Feed feed feed. It is truly exhausting at first but it gets better soon.

My DC were both 12% under at points and had jaundice. I refused to implement the feeding plans suggested and struggled on. You can do it!

Throw DH out of bed and make him become your handmaiden.

To build milk supply, you need to drink loads and eat sensibly. You need to relax and concentrate on the baby knowing that the house is in a reasonable state and the next meal is being prepared.

Half watch some crap TV and don't stress. Try left breast, right breast, left breast at one feed and then other way round at the next. A little tickley prod under the chin will make baby suckle more. Muck about with pillows until you are comfortable.Get the latch and tongue tie checked.

Ok realistically i think i will carry on until the weigh in on wednesday and see what has happened. We arent using as much formula as the hosp were insisting on so i will be interested to see what changes there may be. We have otherwise been feeding on demand (every hour or two with clusters in between) and giving the formula after a feed before bed. If all is well we can concentrate on weaning him off

The best piece of advice I ever received is what MrsPestilence has said. Right then left then right again. Next feed, left the right then left again. This makes the baby get the really satisfying hind milk on the second feed on the first breast.

Oh your post brings back memories!
DS was less than 5lb when born and lost lots of weight in the first few days and the hospital insisted on me topping up with formula...
I remember feeding then topping up with previously expressed milk in a tiny beaker (think slightly bigger than cough medicine size - I was amazed, but he sort of lapped it up!) then expressing again. It felt like a never ending cycle but we got there after a few weeks. My milk came in and he was happily putting on weight. I hope it works out the same for you - good luck!

We were in a very similar situation to you two years ago, with a slightly bigger initial loss (17%). By six weeks, we were exclusively breastfeeding and we're still feeding now at age 2. So it can be done!

I basically did most of what you're doing - feed, then top up and express. I would get DP to give the top-up bottle so I could express at that time. This worked well for us and I'd express for about ten minutes on each side depending on what I was getting. Plus lots of skin to skin, lounging around and eating flapjacks (oats help milk supply ).

It took DS a month to regain his birth weight, and he had similar amounts of formula (between 40 and 70 ml two or three times a day - I would offer if he hadn't fallen asleep on the breast).

With the benefit of hindsight, I'd mention the following:

1. You will get different advice on combined feeding/top-ups from everyone you ask. I have to be honest, I didn't find any of it very helpful and came up with my own system in the end. I also found Kellymom to be a good website.

2. Definitely get him checked by a lactation consultant for tongue tie. Someone who is IBCLC registered. We didn't do this and found out when he was a year old that he had an 80% tongue tie. Nobody ever spotted this despite us bring readmitted to hospital. It explains a lot of our issues in the early months.

3. Don't get too hung up on feeding exclusively. I mean this as gently as possible, because I felt the same way, but once we got feeding established and stopped using top-up bottles, after a ten-day gap DS refused to take a bottle and it took months to get him a) willing to accept one and b) willing to accept one from someone other than me. So think carefully about whether you want to be in a position where you can't leave baby for more than an hour or two for the next six months - you might want to keep a bottle going (whether with expressed or formula milk).

Good luck and enjoy the snuggles! It's also a good excuse for

Do what Bertrand suggested. Spend a day just breast feeding in bed and doing nothing else. After every feed express for a few minutes (use an electric pump). This will tell your body to make more milk for the same time tomorrow. Plus order some fenugreek. It helps your body make more milk. Good luck OP. xx

Beware
80% tongue tie I'm sorry but not surprised to hear that it took so long for it to be diagnosed. I think newborns should be routinely screened for tongue tie by someone who is properly trained to do it.
I agree with you about the bottle. I've been exclusively breastfeeding and occasionally expressing, but we didn't give DS the bottle every day and he's been through phases of refusing it, which has been very stressful and a lot of pressure on me. Giving baby a small bottle a day (whether expressed milk or formula) is actually a good thing IMO as it gives you options!

Laying about in bed all day and night is terribly dangerous advice for a post-partum woman. You are at massively elevated risk for DVT / blood clots or even pulmonary embolism in the first six weeks after birth. Having undergone surgery is an additional risk factor that increases your risk further. If you do want to do a lot of feeding, make sure you change positions, get up and walk for a good spell every two hours, no sitting curled up, etc.

And why are you gutted that you had to use formula? The way I read it, formula saved your baby when breastfeeding wasn't working out. That's amazing.

sycamore54321 in most of Asia there is a tradition of "confinement" where women are expected to rest, mostly in bed, for 30-40 days post-partum to build up milk supply and recovery from delivery.

A day in bed is not going to put anyone at risk of DVT, don't be ridiculous. I had a c-section under epidural and didn't get out of bed for 24 hours after having my daughter.

We are literally broken today. Tried to put DS down around midnight after a whole day feeding around every hour. He literally screams if hes not on breast now. Even guests are commenting that hes so hungry all the time chewing his fists. Gave him 60ml formula after bf to try and get him down. No luck. Still howling at 5.30am after endless bf and attempts to put in basket. Gave another 60ml this morn to get him full and to sleep. Im shattered, DH is shattered. No idea how he will go back to work!! My breasts are full and leaking now. He literally just does not get full.

Well my advice hasn't changed, I suggest you go to a breastfeeding drop-in or see a lactation consultant ASAP. Something clearly isn't right and you need expert help to identify and solve the problem.

My experience was that baby wouldn't make the effort to get my milk going properly until the formula was stopped. I didn't have the confidence to do this until baby was more than 3 weeks old but within a week after that everything had settled and was much easier. I still believe my milk didn't properly establish until I got rid of the formula altogether.

On advice I was given, I fed a max of 20 minutes on each side and then stopped. I would then have a break of around 20 minutes, a big glass of water, something to eat and then express. I found this gap before expressing made a huge difference to production.

It took another couple of weeks before my baby would be sated by the feed enough to come off the boob of her own accord and be relaxed.

The early introduction of formula top up does have the capacity to fuck up breastfeeding but you can absolutely get this back on track especially at this early stage.

I had to bridge the gap between formula top ups and purely breastfeeding with some expressed milk top ups but by 12 weeks I had stopped any topping up.

Whereabouts are you based Jelly? Someone might be able to suggest a good feeding consultant.

PLease get professional help, this is really not good for you or him