Why can't I just accept and give up?

[PrettyCandles]

Why is bfing so important to me? Why can't I just accept that I'm one of those who can't do it? Why do I feel so threatened by formula? I've tried so hard to feed my LOs. Each one was a struggle. I've done my best. Why can't I just accept my limitations and move on?

it sounds then that you are a tired mummy and need some cuddles yourself so [[here]].

i only have one dc so can't advise much so excuse me if i am talking out my backside.
it sounds like you can't see the wood for the trees at the moment.

are you putting to nap in a cot? why not a pushchair? this way you can keep him in the kitchen or where ever with you and shoggle him back to sleep when he comes into a light sleep after 30 mins.

is your older LO able to push the pushchair back and forth to get him off?

are you feeling pressure to put him into a routine because that is what you are hearing around you? and made to feel bad about the feed to sleep thing?

(He's in bed at last, and dh will give him a bottle when ds2 next calls - while I will soon go to sleep in the spare room until the next feed after the bottle one.)

The pressure to get him into a routine comes from me myse3lf. Otherwise I struggle. I know routine works well for us as afamily, and when it's a good rutine it's sufficiently flexible. With two others in school and in pre-school, I have three school-runs a day, plus all their other needs to be met. I do have some help, and a wonderful dh fortunately. But we all need ds2 to be in a decent routine, including ds2, who needs the sleep.

I'm starting to take fenugreek again. I think I'll ask dh to buy me domperidone so that I can try it, see if it's more effective than fenugreek.

ds3 was a feed to sleeper as well. he had a horrible habit of needing to sleep just as ds1 was getting home from school (which at that time involved fannying around in the street for 15 minutes trying to persuade him to walk from the school bus into the house). I used to chuck him in an ergo about half an hour before ds1 got home, then by the time the bus came he;d be asleep and I could then carry on getting tea etc ready for ds1 and ds2.

Also has an amby which really helped at night!

Ds1 is very good at calming ds2, but the only thing that actually gets ds2 off to sleep is a boob or a long walk in the buggy.

You're talking perfectly good sense thunk.

The feed-to-sleep is a problem because it stands in the way of everything else. I'd have no objection to having my boobs on tap throughout the night, if I could only put ds2 down for naps during the day. And if on-tap boobs didn't lead to 'partying' at 4-5am. I know that many babies are ready to start the day at that hour, and need to learn that we aren't (went through similar thing with dd) but this isn't happy partying, this is "I'm hungry/windy/brewing a poo, but I'm tired and I want to sleep" partying.

It would be so much simpler if I would just let ds2 go over to ff. Then he would be replete and I could concentrate on teaching him to sleep, rather than be unable to settle him because he smells the milk. But I don't want to ff, I want to bf.

Argh.

Ergo? Amby? What are they?

ergo- back carrier that young babies can go in- I found that he would drop off in that, I would feed then pop him on my back.

Amby- probably a bit late for it- but google amby baby nest- meant if he stirred during the night he'd bounce himself back to sleep- or I could kick the end of it whilst dozing. He still needed to be fed to sleep at bed time but those things helped at other times.

He'd cry for a few minutes in the ergo btw but drop off really quickly if I walked around.

My ds2 had 2 night feeds until 8 months old, he is 11 months old now, and only just sleeping through - he was bottlefed. IMHO some babies just do this. DS2 never got that ginned up look either, but he used to leave half a bottle so it wasn't hunger.

And he still quite often wakes at 5 with a dirty bum. I find a dummy very valuable.

the ergo is a fantastic idea. my little feed to sleeper (still at 22 mos) will drop off in the one i have. I started to use it with her at 4 months. you can hire one if you don't want to commit to buying one.

if too old for an amby, my mum used to put my brother in a hammock to sleep (day and night) i had to job of swinging him. if your house can stand one a 'double' or 'matrimonial' mexican hammock would do the trick. i mean the house has a way of drilling heavy duty hooks into the walls or posts. i would have loved one for dd but the walls of the 'modern house' we live in cannot take it.

PC, I've experienced the thrashing and the not sleeping and no routine and other things you've mentioned, and have never had a huge letdown or been able to express much.

However.... I have 2 dd's (2.5 years and 8 months) who are thriving.

What I mean is, the things you describe might not be a supply problem, and might not have any specific cause.
They might drive you crazy but not ultimately be a problem for your ds.

It's so so hard seeing them being unsettled and you feel there must be a cause and must be something you can do..... but we tried everything and in the end the only thing that made a difference was time.

OK, we didn't try absolutely everything... didn't want to ff so that was just not an option. dd1 had some ff topups early on under duress but nothing after that. So I can't comment on ff as a "cure" - but it sounds as if you, like me, aren't keen to go down that road anyway.

Erggghhh, I realise I've said nothing except "It will get better" which I imagine is pretty useless for you.

I'll echo others in suggesting a bf counsellor - they can check all the bf things for you so you can cross that off the list as it were.

Sorry, rambly unhelpful post - just wanted to let you know you're not alone in this!

Oh, PC, my love, you sound wrung out.

Your baby sounds like DS2 - who still feeds to sleep if I'm around (he'll go to sleep with a cuddle for DH or in the travel cot for my mum, but if I'm around, he signs milk and Will Not Be Swayed). He's 13mo - at 4.5m he wanted to bfeed loads - and I am well-endowed and produce lots of milk.

He did suck his thumb for a few weeks and he slept better then. But then he stopped and Will Not Entertain doing it again. I even tried a dummy - he thought it was funny to play with, but not for sleep.

Both boys have been very distractible and fed better at night - esp when they get to about 3.5-4mo - they learn there's more to life than nork and got very distracted by a bit of wall or my arm or something fascinating.

You say you don't want to use formula - I can relate to that totally. But you also sound like you need to have a bit more confidence that you can bfeed without top-ups.

When you say he's not gaining weight as quickly as he was, what do you mean? Babies often plateau at this age - again, it can be perfectly normal.

I think you'd benefit from talking to a bfeeding counsellor in RL. How do you feel about ringing someone?

PC, i went to a bfing counsellor at the specialist bfing unit and they prescribed the domperidone. they were also very helpful with my latch and we also did a thing where i actually stopped bfing for 48 hours but double-pumped every two hours. that, along with the domperidone, was supposed to kick-start things for me again. i'm not advising you to do that without advice, by the way. or a hospital-grade pump.
is your HV any good? can you ask her for the best bfing person in the area?

As someone else said, a dummy can be great at settling restless babies. It was the only thing which worked for my DS (esp at night when he was like your DS). Agree with another post which said it prob isnt really the feeding which causes or solves these things, it is more to do with their age and temperamant as a baby. My DS was a really difficult baby but by around 6 months he was much calmer when feeding and otherwise and he slept better (not through the night thou). He also cried a lot in the first few months but this too died down as he got older. I did wonder about trying formula but really didnt want to and found the problems with b-feeding and him being unsettled resolved themselves.

Re-reading this thread, and after a long talk with my very sensible part-time doula, I've come to the conclusion that it's not a feedig problem. It's a sleep problem. As I said in one of my later posts last night, I need to be able to put ds2 down for a nap and to have him sleep for as long as he needs, several times a day. And to have him sleep as long as he needs between feeds at night, rather than wake every time he comes into light sleep. Then I'll be able to space feeds out a bit, rest a bit myself, meet the other LOs' needs etc etc etc.

If I could sort out ds2's sleep, then I dont' think I'd have a problem topping him once a night until we start solids. That's what we did with dd as well. But if things go on this way, or we start giving him more and more ff, then I do truly fear sinking back down into PND.

Thunk, where on Kellymom (which is a site that I know and value already) can I find what you mentioned re weight plateauing at this age?

Here's the bit on growth charts which says that "Healthy breastfed infants tend to grow more rapidly than formula-fed infants in the first 2-3 months of life and less rapidly from 3 to 12 months"

Thanks. That's what I found too, but ds2 has always grown more slowly than ff babies.

it doesn't matter if he always grew slower than ff babies. what matters is that he is healthy and thriving. someone more knowledgeable than once mentioned here on MN that some babies are born big but then grow more slowly outside the womb to 'catch down' to the size that genetics deem they are to grow at. that is my paraphrasing. their weight plateau at this age because they are more active. all you need to do is open your red book and look at the growth charts for all the percentiles that come plotted. they start on a steep climb then flatten out. it is not a matter of bf or ff. it is nature.

i think tiredness and the sleep deprivation you are going through is what is really making you anxious. i would be happy to help you get a sling if you would like to try that way of getting your baby to sleep more if you think it will work even for a short term trial. say a week?

as i think you need right now a short term remedy to help you over the hump and sorting out your ds's sleep issues may take a little longer.

cat me if you want a friendly ear as you sound a lot like me in many ways.

Thanks thunk. We've had mixed results with slinging: he's generally very happy face-out, but doesn't sleep that way (and I don't know how AP's get anything done with those little legs dangling at chopping board/gas cooker height!). He has hated being face-in ever since he was able to be face-out, though he used to sleep when slung face-in. I've tried slinging him on my back (in a Wilkinet) but he did not like that at all. Maybe I should try doing it a few times when he's not distressed.

PC, what sort of sling do you have....I personally would only carry a Baby outward facing if the legs were in and not dangling....so, Baby keeps a nice rounded back!
It's a good position to achieve in a wrap (if you know what ya doing, lol)and very easy in a ringsling....!It's not a sleeping position however, I would think...it's more a nosy looking around position, not sure how big your lil one is...but I used a "laying" position ina ringsling for sleeping...even at 6 month that was very possible!

As for why it's so important to you...I suppose that in the hearts of your hearts you feel breatmilk will be the best possible food for your lil one and it's only natural to want the best.
Sorry to hear you are struggling...it's not nice when it's a chore rather then a pleasure.

I've got a Coorie as well, and he used to sleep lying down in it, but the position is I think rtoo similar to a feeding position and he just gets distressed in it now.

Coorie is a pouch sling, isn't it? So, theoretically you could put the legs in...i.e. knees up and round back, when outward....have you tried that?