BF is going from bad to worse and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep doing it

[Olihan]

DS2 is 5 weeks old and so far has been exclusively bf. However, he's still not back to his birthweight of 10lbs 2.5oz and has only been gaining weight at a rate of 1 - 2 oz a week. Last week he was feeding almost continuously and I saw a bfc who helped me with my latch but that hasn't made any difference with his weight gain. He did stop feeding so often and was going 3 hours between feeds but that stopped at the weekend and he's back to constant feeding for most of the day. He seems to feed, fall asleep, falls off the breast, then wakes 5 -10 minutes later and does the same again for most of the day. He will occasionally have an hour or two of being awake and not wanting to feed but that's only once in a day.

The HV who weighed him on Weds told me to keep going with the bf, feeding him every 3 hours round the clock which I've been trying. DS2 has other ideas though and will only go half an hour to an hour between feeds through the day and then sleeps from about 9pm until the early hours of the morning. It is impossible to wake him up when he's in that phase and if I do manage to stir him he will suck a couple of times and fall asleep again. So he's going about 6 hours without feeding and I don't know how to change that.

I'm also finding it tricky to keep him latched on in the way the bfc showed me. He'll suck a few times but then moves his mouth so he's where he likes to be. I end up taking him off almost every other suck or leaving him with a 'bad' latch for a bit before starting the whole battle again. I think the shape of my boobs may be contributing to the problem as I have to support the boob he's feeding on with one hand and his neck/shoulders with the other. As soon as I stop supporting my boob he loses the latch. But I can't spend an hour plus in the one position, I end up in agony.

Tiktok suggested breast compressions and I've got the Jack Newman stuff on it feom Kellymom and tried it but I can't tell when he's actually drinking and when he's just sucking. It hasn't made any apparent difference to his sucking pattern when I've been squeezing so I'm either doing it wrong or it doesn't work on me.

I just don't know how to make it work. I'm in tears a lot over it, I don't want to switch to fomula because I failed with bf with my older 2 and so want it to work his time. I feel like a total failure knowing that I can't bf when it's the most natural thing in the world. I just don't understand what's going wrong and why it's getting worse not better. What else can I do to make it work this time? I'm in tears just writing this down because formula is starting to feel like it's inevitable.

I also feel like I'm not being fair on ds1 and dd. They're only 3.1 and 17 months and they need me but I spend literally all day apart from the half hour preschool run, making the lunch and putting dd down for her nap just sat on the sofa with ds2 attached to my nipple. I can't take them out on my own because they are too youg to play independently in the park, etc and they won't sit down for long enough in a cafe etc for me to manage a full feed because ds2 doesn't seem to do a 'feed', all day is a feed.

So, what do I do? Do I just accept that I've done my best and I'm just not a breastfeeder, or is there something else I can do to make it work? All I want is to be able to feed him and know that he's full and won't need feeding for a couple of hours.

Soory if this doesn't make much sense, I'm getting myself into a right state over it all but don't know what to do or the best.

you have totally not failed. You are doing your absolute best for this baby.

The two women I know who are on their third child did not even plan to bf beyond about 2 weeks, they have just found it impossible with the demands of the other 2.

I am no bfing expert but perhaps if you are worried about putting him straight on to formula, you could try expressing and giving him that in bottles (that also might mean you could get a rest if DH or someone else gave the odd feed?) and topping him up with formula until you feel he is full and gaining weight. Then he will still get the benefits of breast milk, just more calories on top.

YOu have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. Bfing can be an absolute nightmare and it is no one's fault.

Sounds like you're having a rotten time - poor you! Still, you have done really well to get to 5 weeks and things should - yes, really - start to get better soon.

I wouldn't worry too much about the birthweight per se - both of my dds took ages to gain their initial weight loss back. And ds is gaining, albeit slowly.

Don't be shy to contact the bf counsellor again - they might well be able to come up with some other suggestions. Or try a different bf organisation, see if someone else is able to help.

One thing that comes to mind is trying a sling, so at least you wont feel as if you are spending your whole life anchored to the sofa.

Sorry - got to go and put dd2 to bed now. I'll try to come back later 'cos there are a couple of things I'd like to add. Hopefully someone better qualified than me will be along soon.

YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!

I don't know if there is anything else that you can do to make it work but it clearly isn't working for you at the moment.

My suggestions are to get some good help, from a bfc face-face, perhaps someone other than you have tried, and from very experienced clever bf people here.

Take each day as it comes. Perhaps think of a deadline for yourself by which time you feel that things should be better for you than they are now; eg in 2 weeks time ds2 will want to be fed every two hours during the day and I will no longer feel tearful about bf, ds1 and dd will be able to have more of my attention. When you reach that "target" review the situation.

Breastfeeding is important and has benefits to your ds2 but a happy mummy is important to all of your family.

I suppose you have to consider how you will feel if you persevere in this situation to how you will feel if you switch to formula.

Olihan, I really feel for you. I had really big problems bf in the early weeks (months, really!).

Like you, I had a sleepy baby who would often suck for a few minutes and then fall fast asleep. It feels like a long time ago now, but at the time I was SO anxious as I was desperate to make it work. I was really lucky - I had an amazing bf clinic at my local hospital and I ended up going there pretty much every other day to start with! These are some things they recommended.

1. strip off all non-essential clothes before you start the feed (the baby, obviously. Not you!). The warmer they are, the more likely the are to fall asleep straight away.
2. blow gently on the side of their head while they are feeding - this helps to keep them awake.
3. tickle them and generally mess them around a lot - make the experience less comfortable and they will not fall asleep as easily.

That all helped me, although ultimately I had a supply problem and even the bf clinic ended up recommending that I top up with formula. I beat myself up about it for months but in the end I bf my dd for 14 months. Even though she was not exclusively breastfed, I'm sure I did her loads of good anyway.

In a roundabout way, I'm saying don't feel down about it, whatever happens. And if you feel like you're close to giving up go back to the bf clinic, i'm sure they can give you more help.

And if you're spending hours and hours feeding, get yourself a proper feeding pillow (if you haven't already got one) - it's amazing the difference it makes. They help babies to latch on better as well as helping your back.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Agree with LucyJu on the birthweight issue, you were obviously doing a fab job of nourishing him in utero, hence his whopping birthweight! This may not be the size that he is genetically programmed to be, hence the delay in him reaching it. I bet he's still in the middle of the centile charts.

Ruby, you have made me with the gorilla comparison - have you seen what's lurking under my jeans at the moment?

TBH, I've come to terms with ff ds1 and dd, and I know that ds2 will thrive perfectly well (better?) on it but it's thinking that I can't bf that's making me feel so down. I've had moments when I've thought how much easier my life (and the dcs) would be if i was ff, but I so want to have been able to bf one of my children.

bf is NOT the most natural thing in the world IMO...it is bloody painful and hard work. Do not beat yourself up, you have 3LO s!!! That makes you a goddess in my eyes!

Just give it another few days, when dd was small she changed patterns every three days or so. If its still a nightmare get that bottle going, and get yourself a large G&T and never mind!!!

What a nightmare! Has anyone checked whether your baby is tongue-tied? My third baby followed a similar pattern to your baby. I successfully breastfed the first 2 and was baffled and completely distraught when my 3rd wouldn't latch on properly causing immense physical pain to me, would feed for hours on end and then failed to regain her birth weight. All the midwives and HV seemed baffled by the situation. It wasn't until my 6 week check when I casually mentioned tongue-tie that my GP took a look in DD's mouth and confirmed that she was indeed tongue-tied. I was quickly referred to a ENT specialist 50 miles away ,where they snipped her frenulem and she fed properly straightaway and from that day gained weight.
I was so glad I didn't give up bf and would have, had it not been for my previous experiences.

Tongue-tie is hereditary so could explain your experiences with your other 2. If you google tongue tie you should gets lots of info. It may not be that but is worth investigating.

I really hope you manage to resolve it. You must be completely exhausted. You have done really well to persevere this long.

If it really is getting you down, then switch to formula.

The 'constant' daytime bf behaviour is something I had with both my DS and DD when they were that age. Neither calmed down until they were about 10-12 weeks. It was fine with DS, the first, but it was much more difficult with DD as DS was 3.5 and needing entertainment! You've done marvellously to get to 5 weeks when you have 2 other kids to deal with as well as the constantly feeding baby.

I have bf both of mine with no probs but I have friends who found it much too difficult (e.g. mastitis, latching probs etc) and after a month or so they switched to ff. There is really no need to beat yourself up - you've given him the best start. And the main thing is to enjoy your baby and your other kids.

Hope this helps.

Olihan why don't you get ALL the bf support you possibly can...call those numbers..get some one to your house...get the bfc's on this thread (keep bumping it they'll be here in a minute)...and THEN once you feel you really have done EVERYTHING, if you still feel as you do now, then maybe you need to make a change and express and ff.

But then you should not be able to feel AT aLL that you have failed, you gave it your absolute best shot, you tried evrything...and maybe this is the worst and with the help it will improve from here.

I really hope so for you.

You sound like you're doing a wonderful job, 3 children, 3 and under,and bf you're a bloody saint woman not a failure!!

Thanks everyone, ds2 is doing his usual on-off feeding so i'm having to catch up in fits and starts. I already feel better about it aftr reading all your posts. The advice about taking it a bit at a time is really good - I'm fairly sure I'm going to persevere until Weds when he's weighed again, then go from there.

tongue tie

I think you assume you are 'failing' when you are not. Yes, he feeds frequently through the day, but look at his fantastic night time sleeping! HOw I would have envied you that when mine were his age
When my dd was small I always had to support my breast when she was feeding. But this doesn't last forever. They get much, much better at feeding as they get bigger. Two weeks is a long time in a baby's life. He would probably go a bit longer in the day if you distracted him - ie out for a walk, though I completely appreciate this is tricky if you have to other very small children (you are a sucker for punishment, eh? ) Aim for around 90 mins between feeds to start with. Maybe use a sling so he gets lots of contact but without being attached to your breast all the time. Also cut your feeds down to max 30-40mins. Better a shorter feed with a good latch than hours and hours of comfort sucking (nothing wrong with that, but it's clearly not so great for you) and a bad latch. Do you have help with your other children? Would a relative or friend help you out for part of the day so you don't feel so torn. And remember, your baby is still very, very, very small. He needs to learn to feed too. It's not just you in this breastfeeding relationship. I've had problems with both my children and mixed fed ds to one year and dd to two
He was HUGE when he was born (congratulations) and he is gaining weight, so that's great. Lots of huge babies slide down the charts a bit because their birth weight centile isn't necessarily where they will naturally settle.
Breastfeeding was important to me so I stayed with it through mastitis etc. Is it important to you? Do you want to stay with it? Would mixed feeding be an acceptable compromise for you? If you do want to mix feed you do need to limit the bottles you give, but it can work. Could you think about taking it one day at a time, so you think, I'll breastfeed TODAY, to take the pressure off you. You may find the whole experience very different in a couple of weeks. It isn't an exam where you pass or fail. What in your heart of hearts do you really want to happen?

through the difficult days bf, I always said 'F* it, I am giving up in 3 days...'
and I never did.

why did that work for me with bf, but never with dieting or exercising!

chin up duck, things only get better, as you know.
X

Olihan,
One thing you r not is a failure. U have done a remarkable job to have continued for 5weeks giving the situation.

I would 2nd the sling idea. continue to feed on demand - let ur son lead u. I would also eat porridge in the morning and snack on oat cookies throughout the day to naturally increase ur supply. this should reduce the feeding times as he will be well full.

What r his BM's and wet nappies like per day? I would be more inclined to concentrate on this, rather than weight gain. my dd took 6 weeks to regain her birth weight.

You r doing a FANTASTIC job and u should be very proud of urself. U r not far from the turning point when it will all get better.

Olihan,
One thing you r not is a failure. U have done a remarkable job to have continued for 5weeks giving the situation.

I would 2nd the sling idea. continue to feed on demand - let ur son lead u. I would also eat porridge in the morning and snack on oat cookies throughout the day to naturally increase ur supply. this should reduce the feeding times as he will be well full.

What r his BM's and wet nappies like per day? I would be more inclined to concentrate on this, rather than weight gain. my dd took 6 weeks to regain her birth weight.

You r doing a FANTASTIC job and u should be very proud of urself. U r not far from the turning point when it will all get better.

when i had dd i wanted to bf but was too ill and couldn't, i managed a few feeds but was too weak to hold her, when a midwife suggested giving her a bottle i was in no position to argue, so when i had ds i was determined bf, unfortunatly he didn't want to be, for 3 weeks we were stuck in a routine of screaming day and night, feeding him, he would only feed for 10mins fall asleep half an hour later it would be the same thing we couldn't get him to feed longer than 10mins we couldn't get him to sleep for any length of time. In the in went for the formula, i did not feel guilty i felt relieved, he got into a better routine started sleeping.

the only thing i felt guilty about was dd who was only just 2, i had hardly spent any time with her for 3 weeks, a time she probably needed the most ressurance.

I'm only managing to skim all your lovely posts, when ds falls asleep I will read them properly but I am already feeling so much more positive. Thank you again.

Olihan try www.baby centre.co.uk/baby health/tongue tie
Good luck

Olihan you are doing a great job
Definitely agree with stripping baby down to nappy/vest - sounds like he might be just getting the watery foremilk then snoozing before the fullfat hind milk comes in - hence weight gain problem

Other important thing is for you to eat Cake! My mum was a bfc and everytime she visited bought cake, flapjacks etc - you need lots of high fat and high energy food to make good milk - you can worry about your figure later! best of luck