burping vs projectile vomitting

[katierocket]

Breastfed DS2 is 1 week old (i know it's young to be in any kind of pattern) but he's struggling a bit with feeding.

He seems to get quite bad wind but if we wind him half way through feed or after a big feed he throws it all up (I know it might not be all of it but it really is a huge amount and done with some force). Could this be reflux? is it too early to say? if we don't wind him he gets pain and won't settle, if we do, he throws it up.

help!

I think I made the mistake of patting my newborn's back too much at this stage so that she brought up more than she would have done if I had just put her over my shoulder for a few minutes to let the feed settle. I think they need to be upright but tummy against something eg your chest/shoulder.

yes, it happens even when he's over my shoulder though.

katie - what's the midwife say?

Throwing up is what newborns do. Far more likely to be normal, rather than reflux.

Why do you say he gets wind? If all that happens is he doesn't settle well when you put him down, and expresses this by wriggling and crying, that could just be a newborn wanting to be close to you, and possibly feeding again - normal

But see what the midwife says.

Rumbling sounds and a hardening and softening of the tummy is not 'wind' BTW - just the normal process of digestion!

You don't need to make a conscious effort to wind him or to time this process of winding - just follow his lead. It's normal for a baby to take a break in the middle of feeding, too....you can put him over your shoulder if you want to.

Hope this helps.

My DD (now 15months) had reflux, she had the same signs as yours but we didnt recognise it until she was 5 weeks old. I didnt even know what it was until I read a couple of lines in one of baby whisperer book. She screamed after a feed, would only drink a couple of ounces before screaming. The only way I could burp her was to give her a dummy to calm down and burp her with that in - sounds weird but it worked!
She ended up with gaviscon in every feed until she was 6 months. Dont worry that if reflux is diagnosed there will be all sorts of tests and tubes put into baby to look at the stomach - that is only in very extreme cases.

Couple of tips:
If having to give gaviscon (with milk - if bottle or with water if breast feeding) it can clog up the teat so keep bottle warm and use a least a size 2 teat that is one hole not several.

second tip is winding - try this. Imagine DC is a upside down cone (their bottom is the tip of the cone) and move the body slowly around to form the cone so their head is what would be the base of the cone) - please dont tip baby upside down - the cone is upside down.
This rotational movement lets the air work up the twists etc in the gut and is a much faster and gentle way of winding - no patting/slapping! Sounds complicated but its really not and more often than not results in massive burp in aboout 3 rotations!!

Just re-read this and thought of any 'judges' out there - Bottle fed, dummy and oh I use reins too! There are reasons for all but this is not the place!!

a good sign of wind is a sheer look of pain on their face and bringing their knees right up to their chest in discomfort. my ds used to do this but if patted he vomited (as our describing acctually) but we took to gently rubbing and it moved the wind more slowly, allowing the milk to settle around the air rather than be forced up! he still possetts (brings back small amounts) but nothign liek that now! hope this helps!

thanks Tiktok - the voice of reason! so good to get advice from someone who knows what they are taling about.

last night I'm sure it was wind because he was drawing up his legs and crying out (rather than just crying continuously IFYKWIM).

I think we're in a viscious circle that he only feeds for 5-10 mins then either falls asleep or takes himself off the breast. He then seems hungry quite quickly after (routing, hand sucking etc) but often if he feeds then, he ends up being really sick. I'm happy to feed him whenever he wants but obviously don't want him to end up with trapped wind or, worse still, throwing everything up.

midwife is coming later so will see what she thinks

Yes, I wonder if he feeds and because I have a fast flow, he ends up with a bit of wind, then, when he feeds some more, the milk sits on top of the wind and ends up coming back up.

y mrsseed - think it's my sleep addled brain but not sure I understand the cone thing

katie - babies head is the point but at the top, do circles with their bum, like the open mouth of the cone, keeping headstill. thats how i took it!

I am a total sceptic with regard to knees being drawn up as a sign of wind - that's just how young babies cry. If they are distressed, they cry, and if they cry, their legs come up to their chest. The short bursts of crying do indicate some sort of discomfort or pain, though. He may have wind, katie, and he may be taking in more milk than he actually needs, or can digest comfortably at present. All this is on the normal spectrum for a new baby though....not signs of anything you really need to do anything about!

No harm at all in doing the gentle tummy rub thing, though.

The feeding for 5-10 mins thing is normal, and maybe what he needs to do at present to avoid 'overload' - then of course he is likely to be hungry shortly after.

Not a 'vicious circle' - just a new baby adapting to the world and the new way of getting his food

Trying to keep him feeding when he wants a break after 5-10 mins is likely to upset him.

Let me try again -its really hard to describe, but easy to do!!! - as you have proved.

1.Sit baby on your knee. - stays stationary

1. support babies shoulders head with your hands
2. move your hands (and baby) slowly in a wide circle - but so their bum stays still

that sounds a bit simpler I think!

Like some-one else said, instead of you forcing the air up, it just helps it come up naturally - if it works your husband (or if you are a bit of a ladette you will be jealous of the burp that comes out - I was very proud made me laugh every time

Let me try again -its really hard to describe, but easy to do!!! - as you have proved.

1.Sit baby on your knee. - stays stationary

1. support babies shoulders head with your hands
2. move your hands (and baby) slowly in a wide circle - but so their bum stays still

that sounds a bit simpler I think!

Like some-one else said, instead of you forcing the air up, it just helps it come up naturally - if it works your husband (or if you are a bit of a ladette you will be jealous of the burp that comes out - I was very proud made me laugh every time

thanks for the reassurance, i know it's early days, it's\just so alarming when they vomit up a hyge amount

re:cone thing - got it!

I had a fast flow KR and tried expressing a bit first - no problem - so that the pump took the first explosion, then latched ds on a few seconds later. Seemed to help us.

thats interesting notquitesotired

if he only feeds for 5/10 mins every hour or so will he gets what he needs i.e. hindmik etc?

Awwwww.....katie, not the 'will he get the hindmilk' thing again!!!! This is such a common worry among new mums, sadly.

Healthy babies get what they need - it's got nothing to do with time. If you take the baby off before he 'asks' you to take him off....that's what prevents babies getting what they need

There is lots about this in the archives.

5-10 mins at a time is fine for many newborns. Typically, they will ask again fairly shortly, as you have found happens.

thanks again tiktok - midwife came, very useful, baby has put on weight so no worries about him not getting what he needs. She suggested trying (gently) to extend time between feeds but said that obviously it won't happen immediately.

Good news, katie