Help - advice needed as really down!

[NorfolkTurkey]

Hi everyone - I really need some some advice!

My DD is currently one month old and was born at 29+5 weeks by emergency caesarean (have previously lost two late on). From the word go I have struggled to get and maintain a good milk supply. I have got upset on several occasions (the nurses are used to me sniffling - I'm singlehandedly keeping andrex in business) as there is such an emphasis on 'breast is best' and when your baby is in a Special Care Unit and the only thing you can do to help, you can't even do, it is so depressing. Quite frankly I feel a bit of a failure

I was, and am doing the right thing i.e. expressing regulary, eating well and drinking plenty of fluids. Push came to shove and I was pescribed Maxillon, which didn't make a significant amount of difference. We're also up and down the hospital alot, which again doesn't help!

The last couple of days I have struggled to get out 100mls - 200 short of what she needs. I am getting stressed about it which I know doesn't help, but at the same time I can't help it! What doesn't help is that they recently had to stop her feeds for a couple of days as she had an distended belly (nothing serious thank god). She's back on feeds now but I am worried that her having to have breast and formula would do her harm.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I would be grateful for any advice (saw something today about the herb fenugreek having an effect). I'm even drinking stout which someone told me would help! I know the best advice is to relax but its a bit difficult at the mo!

I'm afraid I can't really suggest anything but hope somebody will turn up soon with more information. But PLEAAAASE don't feel like a failure, everybody goes through different things, and having a baby in hospital is one of those that make people understand that if you need to feed her formula, for any reason, so be it, you are doing the best you can.

I don't think to top up with formula is going to cause any harm but many will discourage you from doing so as it may cause a further reduction in your milk supply, however if the baby is hungry and has been ill, I guess that having a full stomach is the minimum she deserves, so my advice would be to keep trying to increase the milk production but don't be hard on yourself and let her have a bit of formula this time.

Are you OK?

Wish I could be of help but wouldn't know what to advise. I guess if you're expressing and supplying as much as you can, then you're doing your best and I'm sure if they feel it's necessary, they'll top up her feeds with formula. Continue to eat and drink well and try to relax a bit (though I know this is really difficult) if you can. V sorry to read of your previous losses and just wanted to offer support and thoughts. I'm sure your dd is v beautiful and she needs you. You are everything to her and you're so NOT a failure. Keep doing all you're doing. Best wishes to you.

hi, my ds was born full term but we spent 2 weeks in scbu. he had low blod sugar, an infection(had to have a lumbar puncture ), and jaundice, but also feeding problems.

i really struggled to feed him myself and made life very hard for both of us, he had his first formula feed at 2 weeks old, slept really well, woke up happy and we've never looked back. he's now 3 1/2.

i know exactly how you feel when you say that your failing him. i felt exactly the same but your not, not at all.

i hope bf works out for you but don't blame yourself if it doesn't.

look after yourself xxx

fenugreek tea is supposed to be excellent for b/f. I really admire what you are doing - you are not a failure - you are doing everything you can for your baby. How is your baby being fed? I assume it will be a while before she is actually "on the breast"
(I think) one of the best ways of increasing milk supply is having your baby suck and stimulate the nipple - so sure that things will become easier for you at this stage - hope its not too far away.
Until then you are doing all the right things please don't feel down you are doing brilliantly.
midden

xxx

Agree with Maisystar, if Bf doesn't work don't blame yourself for that.

I found it really difficult to breastfeed, I'm not going to enter in details here but I remember that I got to a point when I really wanted to stop breastfeeding and all those well intentioned "keep going's" rather than encourage me made me feel like a failure, I just wanted sombody to tell me that it was going to be OK, that I was not a bad mother for stopping breastfeeding, and that DS was going to be OK. So... do what you feel is best. Good luck!

Dear NorfolkTurkey,
This is a really emotional situation for you - this will have an effect on everything you do. Please be kind to yourself - you are doing the best for you dd. Bit by bit your milk supply will up as the situation is improving with your dd. Your dd is getting your breastmilk which has so many benefits. This is a real achievement
All the best

nt, you are doing fantastically well. you are doing all the right things. the only thing you haven't mentioned, which is frequently mentioned to boost milk supply with mothers of f/t babies, is plenty of rest... is it possible for you to rest more every day?

good luck i think you are doing brilliantly in a very stressful situation.

btw, mollie needn't have formula even if you don't manage to produce more - does the hospital have a breast milk bank? or do you know anyone who could donate? just a thought.

nt, you are doing fantastically well. you are doing all the right things. the only thing you haven't mentioned, which is frequently mentioned to boost milk supply with mothers of f/t babies, is plenty of rest... is it possible for you to rest more every day?

good luck i think you are doing brilliantly in a very stressful situation.

btw, mollie needn't have formula even if you don't manage to produce more - does the hospital have a breast milk bank? or do you know anyone who could donate? just a thought.

Congratulation on your baby!

Firstly, don't stress about your baby having some formula. Lots of people choose to mix feed!

What you eat makes no difference to your milk supply and just drink to thirst.
Express regularily especially during the night as well to increase your supply.

Hi Norfolk Turkey - congratulations and sorry you are having such a miserable time. Please please don't worry too much re the formula feeding - there are generations of us out here who are perfectly healthy and formula fed. Breast feeding didn't work out for me early on - even the midwives said I should pack it in. People put sooooooooo much pressure on you to breast feed these days that the guilt when you can't is horrendous - YOU know you're doing your best for your baby - don't let the b get you down. I think the most important thing is that that baby has a happy, healthy mummy to go home to - do what you can cope with.

NT, the most important help to building up and maintaining a good breastmilk supply when you can't bf directly is to express often enough...rest and fluids and good diet are nice, but they make very little difference to milk supply. It's the frequency of expressing that's crucial - you need to express 6-8 times in 24 hours and those night expressings are essential. Effective expressing might mean switching breasts so each breast has two or even three sessions at each expressing. You express on each side until the flow slows to a drip (see another thread for more on this).

You are doing a wonderful thing as breastmilk is even mnore important for tiny pre-terms

Firstly, thanks for all the wonderful messages. I do feel better although a year in bed would help alot!

That's the thing tiktok, I know how crucial breastmilk is as she is so premature and its lighter on the stomach. I am manging to express about 6 times a day. My midwife went on about getting up in the night (as the wotsit levels are higher) and I tried this for about a week. I was sooooo shattered I knocked in on the head as my milk production effectively halved.

Midwifes mean well, but I think that they work on the basis that you have a full-term baby in the natural way and that they are at home with you. I remember also when I spent some time on the ward, those mothers who chose not to bf were treated like 'what you're breastfeeding - are you mad!' by the staff.

Mollie is on a feeding tube at the moment and I have put her to the breast several times and she has responded well. I won't be able to BF her all the time until she comes home. I am starting to think that my boobs could maybe work better when I bf her properly instead of trying to produce buckets (or trying to) upteen times a day. I think that I am having to resign myself to her mixing her feeds as I don't have an alternative. Might try the fenugreek though!

Congratulations on your baby.
I used fenugreek capsules both times with my kids - it certainly helped me (had to express for the first month with ds1 and for 9 months with my twins). But the biggest thing is your attitude - the more stressed you are about expressing the less you are likely to get. If can relax and work on the approach that anything is a bonus you will probably get loads. If you can do something else while pumpingit may help - say reading a book, watching tv, or surfing the net - anything to take your mind off it.

Massage before and during pumping. Double pump if you can. Lots of fluids.

What is that over the counter medicine that has increased milk production as a side effect?? Someone else will remember the name.

I assume you're already using an electric pump?

You shouldn't feel a failure - you are doing your very best for your DD.

I have heard fennel (eg fennel tea?) can help with milk supply...

Hi Norfolkturkey.

Congratulations on the birth of your beautiful daughter.

I can understand a little of how you feel.I desperately wanted to b/f dd,but she was having none of it.After 3 days,she was screaming with hunger & I gave her a bottle of formula & I felt I'd let her down terribly.I carried on unsucessfully trying to b/f & spent hours each day attached to a breast pump,as I was determined to get breast milk down her one way or another & managed to mix feed for 6 weeks.

After that she had 100%formula & looking back,I wish I hadn't beaten myself up so badly-she was obviuosly happier & thriving.Mixed feeding won't harm your little girl,so don't worry.

Wishing you & your family all the best & that Mollie is home with you soon.

Hi Norfolk Turkey. I am so pleased to hear about the birth of your baby. I would advise contacting an NCT breastfeeding counsellor - your midwife should be able to put you in contact.

Can you not ask for donor milk, Norfolkturkey? Speaking as someone who donated twice before! Donors get screened pretty thoroughly; the milk is safe. It goes all to premies. There's a milk bank in Cambridge (The Rosie). Really irritates me if donor milk isn't being offered. Is Mollie at the NNUH? I'd be willing to jolly well donate some to you if you can hold on for another few weeks and you don't mind collecting (I'm in Nar-itch).

I'm sure Mirage is right, though - & some formula is not that bad. Don't forget you're only human.

NT, this website may help: breastfeedingonline . Is Maxillon the same as Domperidone (I have heard it recommended on Mumsnet.)? I have used fenugreek to great effect myself. Fennel doesn't stimulate milk, but does wonders for wind.

You may well find that your dd gets much more milk from you when she suckles than when you express. So if you want to keep your options open about breastfeeding then, whatever you choose to do right now, keep expressing and putting her to the breast whenever possible, and that way you'll keep the breasts stimulated and you'll be able to have another try later.

You're doing so well! Even if you do give your dd formula, you have given her breastmilk as well.

Do keep us posted.

Hi Norfolkturkey - well done for expressing for your little one. It certainly is hard work with a preterm baby. I notice from your post that you found it hard to express during the night. Have you been making sure you get a sleeep during the day, even for a couple of hours? Expressing at night does boost your supply because of increased prolactin levels. You do not need to spend a long time doing it - the important thing is the breast stimulation rather than how much you get. Double pumping reduces your expression time. Have you been given a pump that can do both breasts at the same time? Also are you hand expressing to get the milk to flow before going on the pump? Hand expressing prior to using the pump stimulates more milk production. At our hospital, mums experiencing problems with milk supply are advised to express at least 3 hourly and are prescribed Domperidone 10mg 3 times a day for at least 10 days. It is mopre effective than maxalon with less side effects. You can buy it over the counter - it's other name is Motilium.

Does the unit encourage kangaroo care/ That is holding baby skin-to skin whenever you can? That can help milk supply too. It might be that you will need to supplement with formula until your baby is able to feed dirtectly from the breast which in turn, will increase your supply. The other thing to try for a few days is to get a bed at the hospital to save you travelling so much. Then you could get some rest inbetween expressing to bost your supply.

You are doing a brilliant job and you will find that your milk will increase when you can actually get breastfeeding properly. Stick in there, you have come a long way already. Well done

I hate to say it but pumping at least once in the night really does help build the milk supply, at least in the early days. It is really worth pumping for say 15 minutes sometime in the middle of the night. During the day try and get a regular routine of 3-4 hourly.

Good luck, and whatever you manage is a bonus.

Hi folks! Feel better today and a bit more relaxed about things.

I know I should be making more of an effort during the night. I suppose that when I tried I was expecting instant results and when I didn't get this (coupled with my milk production taking a nosedive and being tired) I got disheartened and stopped it. The nurses at the unit said that (as they could see I was knackered) don't make a point of setting the alarm but if you wake up naturally then express.

Zebra - you come from Naaaaarwich eh! A fellow country bumpkin! I have never heard of donor milk! I heard that they do it abroad after reading about some Norweigan Mum in Closer who produces oceans per day!

Prettycandles - I'll be doing exactly what you suggested as I really want to breastfeed her and like you say, the only way to do this is to keep expressing regulary.

Thankyou for your excellant advice Mears. It's true, I seem to be more focused on quantity. I try and get a snooze during the day although its not always possible. Yes, my unit also encourages kangeroo care which I have been doing on and off since day 1.

I'll also be straight down Boots tomorrow to get some Motilium. I have to go and get some fenugreek as well (I'll be rattling with all pills!). Don't fancy the though of fennel tea as I'm not a great lover of aniseed - yuck!

Once again, thank you everyone for your words of support. It has really been a help - I'm so glad I started this thread

You sound so much better today!

Do be careful though about taking Motilium and fenugreek at the same time - not sure what would happen! BTW, fenugreek tastes vile, so get the capsules.

I'll definately get the capsules (not a fan of fennel)! Will give Motilium a go first though. Have just finished reading an article on this and its breastfeeding benefits just to reassure myself its safe and that nothing will get through the baby. Everything seems good so I'll start taking it tomorrow. Fingers crossed!