is it right to provide formula on maternity wards?

[nappyaddict]

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i personally think, this is wrong. yes we want to encourage people to breastfeed, but if a was admitted to the children's ward say at 6 or even 12 months old, we would expect them to provide food for that baby. they would not turn around and say you can't have any he/she should be having bm. so why should it be any different in a maternity ward?

if i go to hopsital i expect to be fed, i expect the same for any new born baby.

what do you think?

I didnt say they all SHOULD expat.

I think that there are many babies born in hospital that neednt be, whos mothers, if given the right encouragement and support would happily give birth at home. I think we are led to believe FAR TOO MUCH, that having a baby in hospital is The Right Thing To Do. It isnt, necessarily.

I was suggesting you calm down because you suggested that the idea of giving birth at home could end up being on a par with childbirth in africa....which was, imo, over the top and a little dramatic.

If your friends wants to give birth in a hospital she should be able to do that. If she wants to ff she should be able to without compunction. If she is incapacitated (and giving birth doesnt always mean we are all automatically incapacitated), then I would expect the HCA's and MW's to assist her.

If she is a fit healthy mother with a fit healthy baby she can get off her own arse and make up her own formula like she'd have to at home!!!!

twinklemegan i know ist not that straightforward.

if i had been formula feeding my dd3 i could;ve left hospital with her the following day. As it was we had to spend 4 days with her in hospital being tube fed for 48hours and monitored until my milk came in and her blood sugars stabalised (they were at 1.something at one point). i had to be apart from my family for 4 days, my husband was in end stage heart failure and iwanted to be at home so much looking after them all. he was placed on the transplant list 2 weeks later. so giving formula in that circumstance would have been the easiest and quickest way of getting home and back to our twisted normality.

Twinklemegan, I fully wanted to BF dd. No unwilling about it.

I was given NO support. 'Feed Her' & a pamphlet, after dh had specifically asked someone for help "no resources"....

I tried for as long as I could to try. DD was wailing, I was crying, dh was getting a tad pissed off that this little tiny (4lb 4oz) baby wasn't getting fed (not forgetting that since Weds am I hadn't eaten anything oither than 1 meal of tea & toast)& another mum just said to dh 'come here' took him off to the feeding station & said 'give baby this' I didn't want to, but the mum came & told me that dd wouldn't latch/feed as we were now far too stressed.

I tried at home. I just couldn't get the latch. She wasn't feeding AT ALL. First 2 days at home she gained nothing, actually lost more wieght, which was far to prescious on her as it was...HV rang dd's special care nurse & she was put in a build up formula (by script) that day & she started thriving! HV said she would have supportedme BF but dd didn;t have naymore time to waste. I did it to get vital ffod into my baby....I was in no unwilling to feed her.

"But Twinklemum, it's exactly the 'just in case' attitude that needs to change. Women need to believe in their won ability to birth and feed their babies, imo."

Ceolas, I didn't have any formula or bottles or a steriliser or anything whatsoever to to with FF, when I went in to have my DD. Nothing was going to stop me from BF-ing her. And then she was born with a tongue tie, though not diagnosed til she was 6 weeks old. And sadly I was to be a single parent (hate those labels but there you go) and had no support at home, no-one to shop for all this stuff. It's a good job a really helpful midwife made sure I went home with enough little bottles of formula to last until I could venture out and get some.

I used to believe almost every woman could BF her baby. I was quite arrogant about it - there was no way my child was ever going to have formula, I intended to BF til she was at least 1. Then I had her...

i can't remember who made the point about giving birrth at home and then you would have to use youw own.

yes that is true, but in that case you are saying the women shouldn't get meals during their hospital stay either, because they didn't have to go to hospital to have their lo they could have stayed at home.

IMO this it's a ridiculous and unworkable suggestion. As jimjams pointed out Steribottles are unuitable for newborns (my DS still couldn't use them at 8 weeks) and every mother bringing in sterilising equipment would be chaotic. Where are you supposed to put the made up feeds anyway? Are FFers supposed to bring in little fridges as well?

All patients are fed in hospital. I'll happily pay for formula for my newborn DC's when all other patients have to pay for their food too.

yes

If they hadn't had formula DS wouldn't have been fed - I was 3 weeks early, middle of night type thing so hadn't got bag together. he was too small to suckle properly and needed feeding urgently because he was very low weight. We were in for 10 days during which time he could not breastfeed and I could only express by hand, because their pump was too heavy for the midwife to carry and I wasn't allowed into the room where it was.

Personally I think its more important to feed the baby, and yes, if my food was provided then so should my son's have been.

Think this is very wrong - and ridiculous really. Haven't read whole thread but urgh just makes me want to scream. It is totally the point that the hospital would feed any other patient so why not a newborn if the mother chooses not to bf? The baby is a patient after all. I guess they are not extending this to sick babies in SCBU, so where is the line being drawn about who is a very sick baby and maybe not so sick?

And thats aside from all the issues relating to the apparent 'forcing' to bf. It was only 30 or so years ago they were giving women tablets to get rid of their milk and encouraging bottles. Not that thats right of course, but just to show they can get it so wrong..........

the steralising equipment will be provided.

you jsut need to bring in bottles, brushes and formula.

the prob is that it appears that the nhs are trying to force women to bf. why should ff mums have to pay for food for their children? we pay taxes too, we pay ni, the implication is that ff mums are being penalised. and expat, i dont think you were being irrational at all, it makes my blood boil that ff mums ARE treated like pariahs by the mw's coz its all about targets. yes vv, women who give birth at home do have to do it themselves, but the majority of homebirths are 2nd+ time mums who dont need as much support. after having ds i was bedbound for 3 days, and for 10d after that couldnt even stand unaided, htf was i supposed to make up bottles?

Not providing formula is cruel and stigmatising. I bfed dd2 for 2 yrs but bc of medical reasons I had to ffeed dd1 (who nearly died during birth) and ds. Esp. with dd1, I felt such a failure - I'd let her down by not being able to deliver her, and then I couldn't even get feeding her right. What I needed then was support, not being made to feel I was being rejected by the system that was helping me. I did try to carry on bfeeding at home but got v. ill - when I told my community mw I was ffeeding she washed her hands of me. That is what this decision is saying: the hospital washes its hands of ffeeding mums. Utterly disgusting.

I'm lucky that I've done both bf and ff and these days I'm pretty chilled about how I or anyone else feeds their babies. Back when I had dd1 I wanted to die with shame every bottle I gave her. God knows what this decision is going to do to the mental health of mothers who are in the situation that I was.

Totally unacceptable, my three were all bf, but ds turned blue a short while after he was born and wouldn't latch on (once he'd been warmed up). 8 hours after he was born he still hadn't fed, so mw and I both decided that the best thing was to give him formular which we did without a teat. He was a much happier baby after that and within an hour was on the boob. Of course I'd pay for it, but I shouldn't have to.

i don;t think anyone should or indeed can be forced to breastfeed and if you are comfortable with formula feeding then you don;t have guilt...

.you can feel angry at being let down and frustration at not being supported.

there other side to this argument is

the lack of professional breast-feeding support in many hospitals, over stretched midwives who have not got time to sit with a new mum and help baby get latched on ....

HVs and midwives who tell a new mum to top a few days old baby up with a bottle because there isn;t enough milk

so making women take formula and paraphernalia into the labour ward is not going to increase the number of women breast-feeding, whereas funding more breast feeding help will.

not saying you can't or shouldn't feel guilty...as there are so many reasons women FF when they don't want to , but if there is no other reason other than you don't want to breast feed, there is no need to feel guilty....

i certainly regret not BF DD, especially as i know that with some support, i could have done, but i feel comfortable with having FF her.

it is where you end up forced into ff due to issues beyond your control that the emotional factors really come into play.

good point lulu, like nearlythree i felt like id failed at every step of becoming a mum, and the bf-ing issue was the final straw that tipped me into severe pnd. mainly thru the mw's hv's attitudes to ff, and coz on all my notes it was stated that i would bf, it compounded that feeling of failure. if you want more mums to bf then work on the mws, im inclined to believe that this is a cost-cutting exercise, rather than an educational one.

Ok I', lost. I still don't see why anyone ff or bf would think this a good idea. DS2 went the same way a GS ds- he had formula in hospital (which is how I know all about those funny little bottles), and went on to be breast fed for 2 and a half years. DS3 only had breatmilk in hospital and was stopped feeding really early. He was incredibly uninterested in breastfeeding- didn't seem to like it- perhaps because I was being pumped full of iv antibiotics, who knows.

I don't understand why bfeeder feel that ff should be doing this. It doesn't make sense practically. Even with sterilising equipment etc provided I would have thought that it will quickly get manky, you'll have half finished milk all opver the place, people with catheters and drains hanging from them making up the milk (nice), midwives or health care assistants having to do it for those who can't get out of bed (and considering it took a midwife 4 hours to empty my catheter one day I'll presume you'll have some very hungry babies as well.

What happpens how- off someone pops brings back a ready sterilised made up bottle of milk - all they have to do is warm it- super quick for the midwives. Nice and easy, so lets make it more difficult shall we- that'll make sense (not).

If the NHS is so cash strapped that getting mothers to pay for it will save them x numbers of incubators, fine- they can add the fees to the swipe cards or whatever. I'm used to paying for services that should be provided by the NHS (attemts at dx, OT and SALT spring to mind). In fact I've already spent thousands paying for services that should be free so a few formula bittles wouldn't make much difference- and I had to provide food for 2 year old ds3 when he was hospital (gluten free- NHS kitchens couldn't cope with that) so whatever its hardly new.

But I don't understand on this thread why a certain number of breastfeeders are so anti the formula feeders (and the midwives etc) having it "easy". I can't see what other reason they're saying for it not being provided. Perhaps ff could be provided with free milk if they agree to do penance daily, and wait on the breastfeeders.

NHS care shouldn't just be about money. That's what is so wrong with the system. As I said earlier on the thread locally they will no longer provide SALT for children who have complex problems that can't be fixed in 6 weeks. IN other words the children who have the most need of a service are being refused it. Is that any way to run a health servce?

I've only read the first few posts, and jimjams most recent one - my experience of hospital was that ds1 didn't want to feed, and instead of offering b/feeding support, they reached for the 'easy' bottle of formula. Retrospectively I should have said 'no' but being a first time mum, wasn't over confident, and was knackered!

I think the reason for making it less 'easy' is that lots of people have had this sort of experience where the easy short term fix to the hungry baby is to give them a bottle of formula, but the constant feeding is a natural way to kick start b/feeding. Ds1 never managed to exclusively b/feed, dd and ds2 who were homebirths both did, after a bit of struggle.

I don't think I would go so far as to say it 'shouldn't' be provided, but I'm all in favour of more education of people in hospital to favour b/feeding for those who want to, and to know the right way to do this. Maybe they should all be forced to post on MN for 6 months before working in a maternity unit.

Great post, jimjams. Anyone who thinks ffeeding is easy wants their brain testing.

excellent post jimjams...and i fully agree with expats posts yesterday too...

well yes, I suppose a more positive way would be to employ bfeeding counsellors on maternity wards. who knows perhaps they would be so succesful money to pay their salaries could come from the savings made by not having to provide so much formula.

THat isn't going to happen though is it, because this is all about saving money and nothing about patient care, or the encouragment of breastfeeding.

The NHS is now more interested in balancing books than providing a healthcare service. If that wasn't true they'd stop making decisions that made services worse, but saved money.

I'm sure you're right jimjams that it is all about saving money, and not about health. The current job situation for doctors demonstrates that - it is almost impossible for doctors to get senior jobs atm, and yet there is a shortage of doctors. Doesn't make sense.

Just thinking a bit more about the milk issue, with dd I was DETERMINED not to have any formula in the house, because I KNEW she would lose weight, and I would get stressed, and I reckoned having formula there would make it harder for me NOT to give it to her iyswim. She was the best of mine for feeding, (and still is). But the difference is that was my choice to do that.

NHS healthcare is going the same way as NHS dentistry.

Slowly but surely things will get 'dropped' & become payable by a fee per item. The fees will increase, more item will get dropped.

You will have your 'free' treatment for those who are exempt, i.e on income support & other benefits.

Then it will all change, just like the contract for dentistry, which means no one will be be to get appointments.

You only have to look at Orthodontics to see where healthcare is going.