is it right to provide formula on maternity wards?

[nappyaddict]

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i personally think, this is wrong. yes we want to encourage people to breastfeed, but if a was admitted to the children's ward say at 6 or even 12 months old, we would expect them to provide food for that baby. they would not turn around and say you can't have any he/she should be having bm. so why should it be any different in a maternity ward?

if i go to hopsital i expect to be fed, i expect the same for any new born baby.

what do you think?

The whole money thing is a bit of a red herring actually, i think.

People have babies with many and varying financial situations. I dont think we can accurately draw comparisons to it in that respect because there are just so many variables.

I think there is a distinct difference in going in to have your baby knowing you are going to ff, than hoping to crack b/feeding, but ff if things do go as you'd planned.

What goes through my mind is that, if you are planning to ff, then, surely you'll have all the equipment and formula ready to go, wouldnt you? What's the hardship in bringing the stuff in to feed your LO along with all the other stuff you have to take in?

'But something needs to be done to improve the breastfeeding rates whether you like it or not'

Like the hospital at the heart of this debate needs to give adequate help/support in the education of breastfeeding, instead of saying 'feed her' & leaving you to it when you have NO IDEA what in hell you are supposed to be doing.

Then when they come back & take baby back to SCBU, asking if you managed to feed & tutting when you say No & saying 'well I guess I'll have to take her & do it'

LOL!

I always used to quip, 'Until WHO pays my rent, I can't say I really give a toss about what they say.'

Still do.

'But the EU says your employer has to provide a private place for you to express and a fridge'.

Oh, do they?

Is the EU going to top up my rent and bills when I sue my employer over that and go out on suspended leave whilst the trial date awaits and also my tribunal date?

Who's going to feed us in the interim, my disabled husband?

Yeah, right!

I agree totally Ceolas (it's Twinklemegan btw ). I was just saying I think a "just in case" attitude is more likely if you know that formula wouldn't be available at the hospital. I didn't really think about the possibility that b/f wouldn't work out, but if I'd have to provide my own formula IF I needed it then I'd have thought about it a whole lot more. Having the stuff with me might have made me more likely to use it early on. Am I making sense?

Which is why my initial comment was that any money saved should be put into breastfeeding support.

Sorry Twinklemegan. It's late

Expat, I think you are being a little bit over the top and need to calm down.

There is no reason why a healthy mum with healthy baby and pg shouldnt give birth at home. This is NOT encouraged. I HATED being in hospital and giving birth. I felt my care was substandard to say the least. From making me dry after a shower with a dirty gown because they couldnt be arsed to get me a towel but wouldnt allow DP to go get my bag from upstairs, to not bothering to turn my saline drip on all night and not bringing me any water to drink after 18 hours labour. Waiting 3 hours just for some paracetamol, etc etc etc. In hindsight, and from being on MN, I know that I didnt need constant monitoring, I neednt have been kept in, my waters didnt need breaking etc etc, I was coached to push - again unnecessary. All so they can have a production line of 'safe' births at the expense of a mother's wellbeing and sanity. This wouldnt have happened had I been at home. It just wouldnt.

Comparisons to africa and there sub-standard screening and healthcare systems are bordering on ridiculous!!!!

OK, here's another take on it, which may or may not make sense as I've not thought it through properly yet. Formula being provided by the hospital suggests it's something given in a case of medical need i.e. baby not feeding (not saying that's how it's used, but it should be). Formula being provided by parents acknowledges that it's a choice that can be made before birth - not saying that's wrong, just that it's not in line with DoH guidelines.

Had I been at home, it wouldnt have mattered a jot about the hospital providing formula.

As it happens, they were slack in providing meals for me too, DP had to go to MCDONALDS to get my dinner - only place open at that time, but, my local hospital is pretty shit. I think most women would be better off at home giving birth than in there.

Let's talk about those planning to FF and all their equipment.

That's a valid point.

I used to live in an area where most people FF'd.

I'd say most had no car.

They got to hospital through a friend or in a taxi.

Many had other children and no partner.

So the kids go w/Mum or Grandma whilst Ma goes to hospital to have baby.

No one drives or can afford a car.

So Ma takes the bus or taxi or ambulance b/c she's pretty close.

She's got a lot of other gear w/her, b/c the hospital doesn't provide anything, and she's on her own.

And pregnant.

She has a csection or epidural or assisted delivery.

All she's got on the ward is a little cabinet to store her things in.

It's got no shelves, it's just a cabinet.

And she has to watch out, b/c people steal things.

And let's just say she had a csection or epidural.

That means she can't walk w/o help.

And the 'feeding room' is all the way down the hall.

She can't even get help getting to the toilet or to change her pad and she's supposed to somehow make her way down the hall to sterilise and wash up?

I really wanna know how this works, b/c I was transferred to a bed at 7PM after giving birth at 4PM.

I'd have a 24 hour labour, epidural and forceps.

I was bleeding like a stuck pig.

I had to beg them to look after my baby b/c in all truth, I wanted to die.

I really did.

No catheter.

At 10PM, I rang for someone to help me to the loo, b/c my legs were still on pins and needles.

No one came.

I wound up walking there myself.

They'd kicked my husband and family out at 8 b/c visiting hours were over.

And yet somehow I'm supposed to make it to do the washing up and sterilise bottles and make up feeds?

if i had to drag in tins of formula, bottles etc into hospital, you can be sure i;d be crackign breastfeeding. I hate carrying extra stuff.

and herts hospitals are pretty appaulling on the whole anyway, i try to avoid them.

I agree with that, TW. As fas as I understand that's how UNICEF put it. If there is a medical need. Not sure of the correct wording.

So eg. if mother or baby seriously unwell formula milk is given as obviously baby's life depends on it.

Can't see how anyone could argue with that.

But in normal circumstances if you choose to give your baby formula milk instead of breastfeeding that's your responsibility and not something the NHS should be encouraging as norm.

Misdee - you mightn't have had a choice about cracking b/f or not. It's not always that straightforward.

'There is no reason why a healthy mum with healthy baby and pg shouldnt give birth at home. This is NOT encouraged. I HATED being in hospital and giving birth'

If that is her CHOICE then fine.

But how is it I need to calm down and being irrational and over the top if it is NOT her choice?

You may have hated it, for others, they don't.

As I stated before, I've got a pal who's had natural births for her other two.

She's on her third now.

No complications.

But her son has SN, and her daughter is quite young.

And she has no family nearby.

So she feels best and most secure givign birth in hospital.

I think it's wrong to force her to chose otherwise, and if that makes me irrational, over the top, so be it.

We can't make a blanket judgement about other people and their situation.

I have given birth twice.

The second time, I had no problems and needed no drugs.

But if I had a third, I still wouldn't want a home birth.

why should I be forced into it?

It would do horrible things to my mental health, which isn't good.

Got it wrong again TM - please don't take it personally!

So I guess that goes back to the wording of the policy and what others have said. Those "unable" should definitely get formula provided. Those "unwilling" should, IMO, be provided with formula until such time as their parents can get their own. Their babies shouldn't suffer in the meantime.

Sorry, I got that sentence completely wrong. Obviously the babies aren't unwilling!

Nobody is saying your friend shouldn't give birth in hospital.

Nobody is saying your friend shouldn't ff either.

Thats a lovely story expat but I dont think it covers every single birth experience by a longshot. I'd be interested to see the statistics on ff in the area you used to live vs b/feeding.

The fact is, that very often, decisions made for the 'greater good' are always going to discriminate against a small number of folk. That is life.

Any decent HCA or MW wouldnt leave a woman in the circumstances you describe to make up formula herself.

If they were, then I dont think it would have much to do with hospital's not providing formula at all. It would be down to the shocking state of care at the hospital.

But with the right suport, I think lots more would be able

do people who b/f in your area have cars expat? (totally curious btw).

most people are very surprised that i breastfed dd3 and am still breastfeeding her now at almost 2.

we are on benefits, dh is disabled, not exactly had the last 2 years easy.

why are b/feeding rates so low in this country? will stopping formula being provided FOC make any difference? or will it, as people have suggested here, make people not give a go before its even started as they have to bring it all in anyway? its so tempted in the early days to give formula if you havent got th latch right, or baby isnt interested, or you;ve had a hard time of it. There was a point when dd3 was SCBU being tube fed i almost gave up completely and said to give her forula as i wasnt carrying on. i was in teh depths of the baby blues and upset that my baby had been taken from me in the middle of the night. A lovely midwife reminded me of why i was determined to breastfeed, and got me downstairs to feed dd3 before the next tube feed. with her help and the lovely ladies in scbu, dd3 had the tube out within 48hours. and was fully breastfed after that. that was in a herts hospital, the only oen i do trust, as they saved peters life many times over.

Good point Expat!

Am in my case, how would I have done it? I was out cold for 12 hours post c-section & then barely roused enough to speak to dh when he arrived the next day. I spent much of dd's first 48 hours asleep.

I can't even recall being offered a meal until Thursday night & that was only Tea & toast.

Couldn't get myself out of bed to shower (luckily on the del suite some one helped me). I had a woefully inadequate hospita;l bag as I was 4 weeks early & kept in after a consult for high BP. Didn't even have shower stuff! I had to sit in the shower as I couldn't stand. I had to be dressed as I couldn't bend to get dressed.

NO WAY could I have washed/sterilized/made up/fed/burbed/washed/sterilized for at east 48 hours.

I was sooooo ill after having the DDs.

So messed up mentally.

God, I have so much empathy for mums like me.

I can't wait to be able to volunteer for HomeStart and the Wallace House and be that women to give those ladies a cup of tea and a cuddle and tell them they're going to be okay one day, or just for an hour or so. That their baby will be okay b/c I'll look after it like my own b/c God, I've been there, too, and it's okay. Everything's okay, so just put your feet up and look at the walls.

It's SO wrong to force women to do things just b/c we think that's best for them when it's not necessary and when it's really none of our business as professionals.

But if the mother is "unwilling" before going into hospital it should be made clear that she is expected to take her own formula and this should be in her notes. Perhaps she should then be charged for hospital formula if she doesn't take her own.

I don't know, misdee, b/c by the time I had DD2 and bf her, we'd moved out of that area, and we didn't know our neighbours here well. And we didn't knwo the community as well as we do now.