is it right to provide formula on maternity wards?

[nappyaddict]

take a look

i personally think, this is wrong. yes we want to encourage people to breastfeed, but if a was admitted to the children's ward say at 6 or even 12 months old, we would expect them to provide food for that baby. they would not turn around and say you can't have any he/she should be having bm. so why should it be any different in a maternity ward?

if i go to hopsital i expect to be fed, i expect the same for any new born baby.

what do you think?

Watford is intedning to apply for Babyfriendly status here

Can't see how this will fit with the requirements to be babyfriendly.

Sandcastles - OMG I wasn't criticising someone in your position. if that's how it came over. If you've read any of my previous posts on this thread or other threads you would know that I am all too well aware, sadly from personal experience, that b/f can be very very difficult, even impossible. If someone has given b/f a go, then they are not unwilling in my book. And I'm so sorry about the lack of support at your hospital.

Baby/mother friendly they are not.

Here is my experience of giving birth at WGH
(copy & pasted from this thread to save you having to go over it all again)

And can I just add that I had no support to breast feed WHAT SO EVER at WGH!

The delivery suite was OK, but when you get to the ward they just leave you to it. I was given dd & told 'feed her' that was my support. Then when they come back to take baby back to SCBU, asking if you managed to feed & tutting when you say No & saying 'well I guess I'll have to take her & do it'

Dh told the nurses (on the ward) that I wanted to Breastfeed & he was told 'we don't have the resources (sp) or time to help her' and gave him a pamphlet about it. . I had no idea what to do, tried but failed & ended up in a sobbing mess because having only held her for 10 minutes since she was born 3 days prior (she was early, in SCBU, where she had been formula feed, with no input from either dh or I) I felt again like I had failed her. Cue other mum showing dh where to get a bottle of made up formula!

I tried for as long as I could to try. DD was wailing, I was crying, dh was getting a tad pissed off that this little tiny (4lb 4oz) baby wasn't getting fed (not forgetting that since Weds am I hadn't eaten anything oither than 1 meal of tea & toast)& another mum just said to dh 'come here' took him off to the feeding station & said 'give baby this' I didn't want to, but the mum came & told me that dd wouldn't latch/feed as we were now far too stressed.

When I left (after a week) I had not been supported to breastfeed & was not even shown how to bath a baby. Both points that WGH 'apparently' are proud they offer! If they don't have resources for the basic feeding/bathing how will they find them to help with making up bottles etc?

Adamamum - that is so like my own story .

Whilst I totally disagree with any hospital not providing formula in cases of medical need, I don't really know what the problem is about having to take your own bottles and formula if you are planning to formula feed. I think was me I would prefer to feed my newborn from bottles I had provided using a brand of formula I had chosen.

Twinklemegan, I haven't read anything from you that would lead me to think you were criticising me or anyone in my position!

(will have a look, but not sure what I missed lol)

That is appalling care Sandcastles. If the hospital wants Babyfriendly accreditation then all that you mentioned must cease.

Babies in SCBU are only given formula with the parents permission. Mothers are encouraged to express milk for their babies if the baby is initially unable to breastfeed directly and they are shown how to do so. If the baby is given formula it is by tube or cup. Mothers are supported and given help to breastfeed at all feeds when needed.

Did you write and complain about the care you received?

Twinklemegan, just found it....no offence AT ALL! Didn't read it like that at all.

Twinkle I truly believe that many Mum's,once they have invested cash in bottles / ff won't be as likely to give BF a go. From my own experience with ds1, I couldn't get support from HV or MW when his weight dropped- to under 5lbs (he was born 5 5). My dad suggested we get some formula, as the Millenium was just about to happen (the reason we hadn't been able to geta MW or HV to come out) JIC. Once it was there, we used it- of course we did, we were scared.

This is, I suspect, especially an issue for poorer Mums- those who often benefit most from BF. Because although after delivery formula is free, before it isn't, so if you invest £10 or whatever it is now in formula that's £10 you can't spend on, for example, expressing equipment, BF bra, books on BF, nutritious diet.

Erm, I mean "I think IF IT was me"

Just a though RE BF support- ehren ds3 was 5 hours old (at 8 am) I was asked to go and support a Mm BF as I was the only one on the unit that day with Unicef training. . 2/3 of the MW were locums. very costs saving i'm sure, but entirely inappropriate (I then ahd to give homestart advice to a disabled lady awaiting induction FFS). I worked ahrder than on an average working day.

Sandcastles - Ah, I thought you thought I though () that you should be classed as unwilling. I'm glad you didn't - I've been upset many times by things people have said about b/f and f/f and I'd hate to upset anyone myself.

mears, I had her at 11.30 weds night & didn't wake til 11ish the next day. I have no idea if they asked dh of they could give her formula, but I have no doubt that they HAD to, as I just wasn't awake.

But the first time I saw her, for 10 minutes that thursday lunchtime I was merely told (dh has corrected me, they actually said) 'she needs feeding' (so out of it still that I can't remember what they said) then she walked off.

On the ward Fri lunch (when we were all reunited for good) just given her, she actually sicked up all over dh & the assistant just said 'she might need feeding again'

No, I didn't complain. Why? Because I didn't think to. Because had it not been for 1 midwife there dd might have died inside me (she became very distressed, which we only found out after the MW decided to monitor me before I tried for sleep) I was just greatful to have her & to hold her & to able to take her home.

3 years before me a friend complained about her care after having her 2nd (she's 8 now) She had a generated letter saying they ae looking into it & she still hasn't heard!

Watford General...babyfriendly

Also, dh's mum stayed with us (on hols from Oz) and fractured her elbow. She had terrible care in Luton Hosp & when we complained they sent a letter back full of lies. Even getting the day wrong that she had the op....I knew complaining was fruitless.

PeachyClair - I totally agree, as I said earlier in this thread. That's why I believe that this plan should only apply to people planning to formula feed from the outset. If someone has tried to b/f and has such difficulties that formula is truly required, then that is a medical need and the formula and equipment should be provided. I'm not entirely sure how the middle ground should be covered, since as I said I think encouraging women to provide the stuff "just in case" is dangerous. But if someone tries b/feeding and then decides they are definitely going to f/f from then on, I think they should probably provide their own if that is practicable.

Twinklemegan, not at all. can't even think how I percieved it. But certainly not upset by it.

No drama here!

Just to pick up on another point though Peachyclair - bottles, etc. would be part of the expressing kit you mention anyway, surely? That's the only reason I had bottles at home when it all went pear-shaped.

Mears, I think had I had my lovely HV from day 1, I would have persavered (sp) with BF. She supported me all the way in my choices.

I know I could have gotten it with her, but after 6 days at WGH, dd just wasn't gaining.

I tried at home. I just couldn't get the latch. She wasn't feeding AT ALL. First 2 days at home she gained nothing, actually lost more wieght, which was far to prescious on her as it was...HV rang dd's special care nurse & she was put in a build up formula (by script) that day & she started thriving! HV said she would have supported me BF but dd didn't have anymore time to waste. I did it to get vital ffod into my baby....I was in no unwilling to feed her.

They needn't be Twinkle, i used cup feeding to give expressed milk on theadvice of BF counsellors- I wouldn't want to try ff with a cup though - quite hard work.

Its not just the JIC keepers of formula milk: people who have been unable to feed previously ( fed ds1 for 3 weeks or 4, ds2 for 4 months and ds3 for 15 so it can vary) and are suffering from low BF confidence would be less likely to give BF a go after all if they've already planned ff and have all the expensive garb in their bag.

I must admit that I will get formula next time, JIC.

Hopefully I will be able to feed, I want to be able to feed BUT I do have low confidence now. We'll see what help & support Australia offers!

It seems to me that this is putting the cart before the horse. I'm in Ireland so have no experience of UK hospitals but they do appear to be very similar to Irish hospitals which pay lip-service to breastfeeding but offer very little support. The general attitude seems to be to ram the baby's head at the breast and hope for the best! Luckily for me this worked on all my boys, even ds3 who was 8 weeks prem but it doesn't work for everyone. When I was having ds2, I was put into a ward with four other mums. Four of us were breastfeeding. After 2 days, two of the mums had given up. The MW's solution was to give them bottles of dextrose while trying to get a good latch but with hindsight I don't think those MW's knew a good latch from a bad one. I tried to advise one of them as to how to establish a good latch, even though my only experience was of being a bfeeding mum myself but then I moved to a private ward. I heard afterwards that the mum I was trying to help was distraught when I left as I was the only help she was getting! In those circumstances banning formula is madness!
If you have a good system in place where you have a proper ratio of trained lactation consultants to breastfeeding mums, then there would be far less need for anyone to resort to formula.
I do think it should be available when necessary but as has been suggested in a generic form, no marketing allowed.
As a matter of interest the bf rate in Sweden is 95% isn't it? Do Swedish hospitals provide formula to babies who need it?

Ah mears- I'm glad you said that- about it being unworkable as that's something I would have thought likely- as some poor midwife or healthcare assistant is going to have to be making up feeds for mothers unable to get out of bed.

I had ds1 and ds2 in a a supposedly baby friendly hospital. Ds1 was placed skin to skin, but ds2 wasn't (he got cold, started grunting and then was in an incubator for the rest of the day). I had ds3 in a hospital without babyfriendly staus and they were very keen on skin to skin (although less keen on babies in bed- whereas at the first hospital they'd tuck them up with you).

The baby friendly hospital ran workshops antenatally about breastfeeding- lasted a day and were excellent. Post natally the support was minimal. This was a hospital that was so short staffed they couldn't even clean up urine and blood that spilled on the floor whislt emptying my catheter (baldder was damaged hence the blood). The midwife was too busy, no cleaners, dh did it with some paper towels. Same hospital that didn't manage to provide pain killers for me post section because the midwife was too busy to bring them round. Same hospital that refused to help me out when I got my catheter and drain tangled trying to change ds2's nappy (at a time when I woudl have still been in bed post ds3 as they wouldn't let you out of bed pre-24 hours) because they were too busy. How on earth they would find the time to make up formula I don't know. DS2 needed it and needed it fdast, he had breathig problems and low blood sugars, if we'd been waiting for a midwife to find time to make up a bottle he would have been in SCBU (where he was meant to be anyway but there were no beds). And no dh couldn't help me as he was at home looking after ds1.

I also had the same experience as Sandcastles and also gave birth at Watford General. Baby friendly they are not!! I still have nightmares about my experiences there, they gave me no help whatsover with breastfeeding. I had an horrendous time there it was terrible it really was. The day staff were rushed off their feet and the night staff just could not give a toss.