Another article about how awful breastfeeding is, this time in a feminist publication

[Caligula]

I thought some of you would like to read this.

This misinformation bugged me:

"Times change though, and the formulas on the market are hopefully as close to what comes out of your boob, as they will ever be".

Wonder what the rest of you think

the new breastfeeding taboo

socci - you are absolutley right. I was trying to make this point earlier when I said that here in the UK the opposite is true, bf is seen as abnormal (as few are SEEN doing it) whereas ff is seen as the normal thing as it is the normal image one gets going about in public as well as stuff in the media. How many actresses do we see bf on our soaps or other programmes ? None.

Don't even go to the "extended" thing, where you are perceived as an utter weirdo if you bf beyond one year.

See Aitch, I am abnormal too

see now pitchounette, as someone whose child did fail to thrive, i find your 'i would feel guilty for starving my child' a bit insensitive... i take it this woman was under medical care at the time? i can assure you if the docs thought the child was in any danger they'd have put an insurmountable amount of pressure on her to top-up if they thought the baby in danger. 'starving' is not a great choice of word...

Aitch - yes she seems to have had crap advice (like almost every single one of us on this website) but seems so completely triumphant about it all.

She seems to be saying yes, I had crap advice, but hey wait I am 100% sure it was that my bm tasted crap, so no matter what I did, it would have failed any way

I don't really follow her logic.

neither do i, yellowrose, but i bet you ANY MONEY that she is still a bit gutted by the experience and that article (which lord knows she probably got paid bugger all for) seemed to me to be a scream of pained and pointless self-justificatory defiance. i still think it hurts her, and i'd wager that she will try again if she has another child but is trying to protect herself from the misery of it not working out by saying she's cool with the bottle.
it's got to be easier second time around, now that we know how to stamp our feet a bit more hasn't it? please tell me so...

Lisa - your mum sounds like mine maybe it's a Scottish thing! She was totally like "why are you even bothering about BFing I didn't, your aunts didn't your Gran didn'r and we're all fine" everytime I said anything about DD1 it was "put her on a bottle" and she even said she didn't feel like a proper Gran as she couldn't feed DD1 (WTF), like I was selfish in BFing. So I know where you are coming from. When I had DD2 at home I said no visitors for 2 days, I sat on the sofa with DD2 at my boob and DP looked after DD1. Love the idea of lying in, it should be compulsory, a week in bed with your newborn bliss.

I totally agree with the posters who say bottlefeeding fits in better with your schedule, I have had people ask me "don't I miss going out and getting p***? sometimes I do but my baby is more important, it's about priorities. I know some young mothers who leave their babies with their mothers and go off for a weekend at a time, cannot do that when BFing. Or one girl whose mum did the night feeds for a month as she was too tired looking after the baby during the day.

I'm winding down BFing for DD2 (long story but the time is right for us now) and having mixed feelings about it but most people are like "well that's good" and if I say DD2 is beginning to have cups of milk they are like "that's better then" eh milk from another species better that mine I don't think so!

Socci - yeah I see where you're coming from. Incidentally I had a very detailed birth plan stating that no one was to offer me any pain relief other than water and g&a. I got through it without anything else but it was so traumatic I think that might have been a mistake!

Actually I think a big factor that's not really been mentioned is a woman's partner. I didn't even want to have formula in the house in case I was tempted to use it (so I am agreeing with you there) but my DH insisted "just in case". After days and days of me being in tears every time DS cried for a feed, and after a horrendous evening of DS and me both crying for about three hours, he made me give him a bottle of formula. I hated him for it. But he had both of our best interests at heart. It's much harder I think for DPs and DHs to stand by and watch the two most important people in their lives suffering.

my mum's scottish and she bfed three out of the four of us. (couldn't with me as she'd been taken back into hospital and i hadn't gone too ). she was the only person on the wards though, said she felt like a right hippy freak for bfing.

I agree in part with the aticle. I hated breastfeeding but 1st time I hsd lots of issues both with feeding and in my life. Managed after weeks of bad latch,(no one showes how to get on correctly so had very painful cracked nipples) abscessess,mastitis etc but got to 20 weeks because I felt so guilty. This time with my dd only managed 6 weeks before I introduced formula. I had same problems at start, was a bit phobic of putting my DD on breast as last time had been so bad but by end of 1st week was feeding well. Only thing was I had terrible position and hurt my back. Whenever I was at my BF support grouo they got me sorted only for it to all go tits up when I got home. Also had all my BF mum pals giving me conflicting advice. One time I thought I was doing grand (no pain, good latch deep swallows etc) but holding my breast with other hand (this worked I'm quite big) when my pal came over and man handled me into a better position. Next thing was back at square 1.
I began to resent every feed and knew I was not in a good place. My health visitor had me on extra visits as she was worried about PND. I had just found out my mum (58yrs old)has Altzeimers. Madly I'd noticed a changed in her but thought it was disinterest in me and my children so had been very angry for a while with her (so sad I thought like that )
Anyway some thing had to give and for me unfortunatly was the BF. I am now happier and starting to accept things.
However if I had another baby would most definatly try again and I have been able to help my friend with week old DS with her latching cause it was 1 thing I learnt. She's so far doing brill.
So for the record I think breastfeeding can be awful but can also be a wonderful thing and other mums should gently support each other not bully in to doing or stopping. The discission must be your own. I experienced both.

This is one person's account of how she felt - no one can disagree with that

but

its a big shame and she does seem to have a chip on her shoulder (or a whole portion).

I had cracked and bleeding nipples, mastitis and thrush all three times (+ pph after each birth). I hated it (mostly) for the first ten weeks. I was exhausted all the time (still am) and even now at 6 months (3rd) I still get sore and she bites most days. I do however feel that it is my duty as mummy to give my babies the best - regardless of what I am going through and I have most definately suffered a detriment. I know I haven't had it as bad as lots of people and there has to be a time when enough is enough.

What I hate most are those people who don't even bother to try, even for a few days, especially when its for selfish reasons like baby will sleep through, I don't want my tits ruined, my husband can help with the feeds and so on.

I also agree that more information should be given to expectant mums about breast feeding so its not such a shock if it doesn't go smoothly and naturally.

I just don't get why it bothers you so much how other people decide to feed their babies.

Because I think its a shame that a baby won't benefit from colostrum or breast milk because the mother is worried about how her tits will look as a result (I know someone with that attitude). May not because the baby any issues either now or in the future but who knows?

For me its about promoting the best for babies (but as I said I understand many people have problems they cannot overcome and there has to be a time when enough is enough)

Lactulose can't possibly make milk taste different as it isn't even absorbed into the body, never mind excreted into breast milk. Not saying that antibiotics do make bm taste different but her emphasis on the lactulose was a bit weird.

Pointydog, each to their own, no rule says that you must be interested, but speaking for myself I'm very glad that others are interested, because without the advice I read on mn I might not have been able to bf and I'd have been devastated.

I know what you mean in a way Chocolatekimmy. My SIL decided not to try breastfeeding her DS at all and I have to admit I was quite infuriated with her, although I do as a rule try not to be judgmental (having been on the receiving end!). Her reason was that she wanted to give feeds at set times and she just "didn't like the idea". She has three sisters and her mother didn't breastfeed any of them. None of her friends breastfeed their LOs either. So for her breastfeeding is weird and unnatural. Interestingly though, I was breastfeeding DS one time and she came and sat with me and actually said that she sometimes wishes she had tried.

There was a study that said a very high proportion of women who bf successfully had strong bf rolemodels.

I think the other issue here is that it's often turned into an all or nothing thing.

If you don't do it from the get go and do NOTHING but bf, forget it.

Not true at all.

I went to an NCT meet w/two women who didn't start BF till their babies were 5 and 7 days old respectively.

But yet, the hospital had told them if they started FF, that was it.

Also, as one member pointed out, in other cultures, they freely give the odd bottle of formula or even water and yet successfully BF for months.

Here, you're basically told you cannot under any circumstances express or give the odd bottle till the baby reaches a certain age.

So some women think, 'Well, shit, I'm shattered, in pain, depressed, etc., but if I give a bottle, that's it. Fuck it.'

That is so true Expat as I've said so often before. The fact is that the odd bottle of formula is unlikely to do any harm at all (to breastfeeding I mean, I'm not getting into gut issues), especially if breastfeeding is already established. I definitely think the exclusivity issue can put women off. For example, a lot of women just aren't comfortable with breastfeeding in public for whatever reason (for me it was because I found it so difficult and DS struggled so much), but many women find expressing terribly difficult, so what are they to do? Breastfeeding is not always the "hassle-free" option it is portrayed as, but women are often made to feel, as you say, that it has to be all or nothing. I combined bf, EBM and formula for 4.5 months by the way.

Hi KZ!

I found getting bf established unbelievably hard with ds1 - I'd had a very long labour and MW thought I needed to sleep.

No one told me that sucking reflex is strongest in the first 30 mins after birth (apparently).

Poor ds1 lost nearly 2lb.

ds2 went on the boob at 15 mins old and we never looked back.

I think lots more Mums should be encouraged to put baby on the boob in the first half an hour of life - though I don't think they should be made to feel guilty if they choose not to.

I did, too, Twinkle.

Yes, I had a stonking supply, and was very lucky in that.

But honestly, a little flexibility would go a long way.

The support issue is HUGE. If you don't have a lot of support around you - particularly if you have other young children at home, or if your spouse or partner works long hours or away a lot and you have no family nearby - it's going to be dead hard for many.

My grandmother BF'd all six of hers for 2 years.

Yet there was my dad, saying, 'Poor DD2, she's windy b/c you bf her.'

I gave him a good clout for that one!

So did my mum!

I began by feeling desperately sorry for the author of this piece.

She wanted to breastfeed, everybody around her was saying that she would be able to do it, she armed herself with information from literature available to her - basically, she was "going to breastfeed" and no other thought entered her head - why would it? This reminds me of Twinklemegan's thread about the bf literature all being a bit rosy and not talking about problems one might encounter.

Then she says she hated breastfeeding and I thought "oh, poor thing - what happened?" - she goes on to describe woeful support and I still feel sorry for her. She worked bloody hard to get bfeeding working for her and I admire her enormously for that.

However.

The slippery slope from "feeling very sorry for" to "calling an idiot" began at:

"What if secretly all women who have had kids know that breastfeeding is not what it is made out to be?"

Oh yes, it's really likely that all women who've bfed have done so unwillingly. Yes, you genius, you have it in one.

She goes on to drop in my estimation by feeling "picked on" at a large baby clinic - of COURSE HVs only remember the names of breastfed babies. It's in their HV manual "tell mums to offer formula at every slight hitch, or even just for the hell of it, get 'em on solids by 17 weeks at the latest and only remember the names of the breastfed ones".

Then "Times change though, and the formulas on the market are hopefully as close to what comes out of your boob, as they will ever be." Well, she's not wrong, I don't think - but not in the way she things she's right. They're no closer or further away than they'll ever be - they are what they are. They'll never be bmilk because it's not possible. Humans will never produce cows milk either. It's a meaningless statement.

The friends and relatives she's spoken to obviously have valid experiences to share - but I do wonder whether she spoke to anybody she knew who had bfed successfully - either because she doesn't know anyone, or because, in her seeming reluctance to hear anything positive about bfeeding, she didn't seek the opinions of those who may have had something nice to say about it. I don't know she did this, of course, I just wonder.

Then she really put the tin lid on my thinking she was an idiot by talking about breastfeeding being the only way acceptable to society to feed a baby.

HOW many women have been told their baby "must have formula" within hours of their birth?! I know I was - erroneously, as you'll all know, since I have mentioned it occasionally(!)

HOW many women are told their babies aren't "following a centile" and must be "given top-ups"? Or that they have unsatisfactory milk (perhaps due to a growth-spurting baby) and must do the same? Or all manner of myths (some of which she perpetuates in her article - like the what you eat makes your baby fussy one - which may be true in a minute percentage of babies, but is just not true for most women/babies).

Or all sorts of other "give formula and your baby will be fine, don't persist with this breastfeeding nonsense" message that SO many health professionals give out EVERY DAY to women who WOULD be able to breastfeed if they had decent support.

So that's why I think she's an idiot - because she's ranting at the wrong people. I can kind of see why she's doing it - it's maybe easier for her to believe that nobody enjoys breastfeeding than to wonder whether she might have been able to do it if she'd had better support.

Why isn't she asking why her health professionals weren't trained to support her? Why they didn't point her in the direction of a breastfeeding counsellor?

I've missed stuff out of this, I'm sure, but I hope the reasons I called her an idiot further down the thread are a bit clearer now.

I think that a pragmatic approach to bfeeding can work for some women and mean they bfeed for longer than they otherwise would.

But for me, one bottle of formula would have sent me spiralling into deeper depression - really and honestly. I already felt I couldn't do anything right and I was a lousy mother - if I "couldn't even breastfeed" I would probably have thrown myself under a lorry in the early days. Yes, honestly.