how many is too many?

[murphymadness]

MAy seem a silly question really but how many times a day is anyone else's 18 week old feeding? I know true on demand forget the clock and all that, but trying to find solutions to his colic at night and someone suggested try 4 hrly day feeds (!!) Have managed to get down to 6 feeds but then other days will need loads almost to compensate. Also worried that as feeding so frequently not getting enough of the good hind stuff, although I always put back on same boob if within 1 hour of last feed, and not letting food digest before next snackette. His longest feeds are 15-20 mins but he does gulp down and seems pretty efficient feeder. Boob does squirt milk in quite copiously too so may be nothing to worry about and barking up the wrong tree so to speak.Woudl be interesting to know how many feeds others are doing a day.

IIRC, my two were feeding about 5 times a day by that age - 1st thing in the morning, mid-morning after nap, mid-afternoon after nap, bedtime, and dreamfeed at our bedtime. There would sometimes be another feed around our lunchtime. Certainly found that spreading feeds out helped with evening grumpiness/colic (fortunately we never had it too badly, but there were weeks with a lot of miserableness in the evenings). If, especially in the evening, the LO seemed to want a feed less than 2h after the previous one, I would do my best to put him/her off - cuddle, distraction, dummy - until at least 2h after the feed. Dummy was very good for miserableness - sucking really soothes a young baby's belly-ache - just don't allow them to sleep with one in their mouth.

my dd never went more than two hrs between feeds in the daytime before she was weaned properly. at night she never went more than five hrs either. at 12 wks my dd's longest feed was 10 mins and that was the lazy night feeds.

i don't think that feeding frequently causes colic. your baby sounds like he is just growing up. so many developmental things are happening right now. teething, brain, muscle and bone development, growth spurts who knows what combination is causing interrupted sleep this week and what will next.

forget all the carryon about hindmilk/foremilk. it was concocted by baby gurus who don't know enough about bf. ever heard that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing?

your body makes one kind of milk. the longer milk sits around in your breast, unremoved, the fatty part of the milk separates out leaving the watery 'foremilk'. in traditional societies babies bf as often as every 15 mins for a min or two and these babies never suffer colic. these babies are also held close to their mums or another carer for most of the day.

your baby sounds like he just wants to be snuggled up close to you at night and get the reassurance that he needs to cope with the stresses of being 18 wks old. being next to mum is the cure for him, really. surely that's not a bad thing for him at his age.

at 18 mos, i still bf my dd on demand when we are together. i work full time and she has 3 meals a day plus snacks - on top of mummy milk.

Hi, my 18 wk DD used to b/f every couple of hrs as she was just snacking. Recently put her onto formula bottles and she is lasting 4 hrs between feeds now - haven't looked back!

Have you tried colicynth granules (homeopathic) for the colic or baby massage? I personally don't think that 4 hourly feeds help for colic. What are his colic symptoms?

Mine is 19 weeks old. I went through hourly feeds and now feeds every two hours. The longest he has gone at noght is 6 hours, but in the 2-3 weeks has started marathon feeding at noght. Last night he fed hourly until I put him in bed with us and then he slept. I am desperately trying to get him on the bottle with no success..

Shish - you have done brillianlty well to breastfeed until 19 weeks. Feeding is not just about getting a baby to sleep - that eventually comes for all of them but at different stages. Formula fed babies do not all sleep at night - you just need to look at the sleep threads to see that. Initially they may last longer between feeds because their stomachs are full of milk that is harder to digest than breastmilk. Once their gastric system adjusts to it, they often begin waking again.

The answer for breastfeeding babies with colic/ sleep problems is not to put them on a bottle.

It is the answer if you don't want to breastfeed anymore - a subtle difference.

agree with mears. i tried at one point to give my dd one formula feed per day and all i got was a sicky, colicky baby. went back to exclusively bf but her colic didn't settle properly until i gave her a medicine dropper full (about 5 ml) of Wood's Gripe Water before each bf for a couple of days.

Gosh - mears what an intelligent post - I totally agree about the sleep thing.

It is a myth that ff babies sleep better or longer. My motto is "formula never has and never will solve the world's problems" that includes sleep

THanks all for posts, reassurring to hear.His 'colic' has got worse last 2-3 weeks so hubby and me are just knackered juggling the night plus busy 3yr old.Just to compare at beg. sept he was waking once a night around 5 am for a whole blissful week then has slowly increased to 3 but wiht worsening windy pains, so barely any time btw feeds from settling. Intending to BF at least til xmas when go back to work and then only drop day feeds for ease.Just as well as this baby just doesn;t do bottles at all well most of my expressed milk has gone down the sink!Working on going to a cup instead of teats. His 'colic' is quite different from baby 1 who classically screamed until 2 am then slept thru from 3 months old (hence such a shock with this angel!)He doesn't often scream more a griping cramping type thing after feeds which few weeks ago would be resolved with a further feed but not so now as too painful to even feed it seems.Sometimes settles straight away and all over and done with in 20 mins othertimes 2 hrs sessions sometimes particularly if btw 4-5am doesn't settle at all and the day just starts then...HV agreed about not starting formula as a cure also. One major concern for us is that we go on hols to Red SEa on Friday and as we will all be sleeping in one room this well looked forward to break is likely to be more of an expensive chore as the 3 yr old will also be awake more than he currently is at night due to baby.Poor little soul he's currently full of 3yr olds cold so even worse than usual (big bruv getting his own back for disturbed nights!).

Shish, your babe sounds EXACTLY like my ds2. To a T!! I also went to sleep last night after giving in and just putting him on the boob in with us... Oh well, I'm not alone!

Hi mears.. I do like breast feeding and rally wanted to do it, but I'm finding it really hard now.. Even he only took bottle for someone to help me occassionally. I'm also wooried about weaining him off the breast. I've heard of people who have had to breast feed until 2 years!!!

How are u functioning during the day? you must be zombie like by now?

It's not easy.. But you have to keep going. I feel like I could sleep forever!!

shish - bf for 2 years isn't as strange as it may seem - I have done it for 2.4 years and still love it. So does DS of course.

I am not suggesting for one minute that YOU should do it for this long Not all mothers enjoy it for this long, but toddlers love bf as much as babies do.

Oh, and they almost all self-wean. Usually between the age of 2 and 4.

Sorry, if this is totally irrelevant !

I really don't want to breast feed for that long!! I want to start weaning him off soon. What if I want to return to work??

shish - of course you are entitled to give up whenever you wish. bf is a parenting choice, it isn't just a form of feeding.

shish - as your baby gets older you can try distracting them instead of feeding all the time. You can get caught in the trap of always offering a breastfeed when perhaps going for a walk will help. You can go out and leave your baby for 2 or 3 hours without having to leave milk. He will not starve honestly. If he loves to suck perhaps you might want to consider a soother to suck instead of you. You only have a few more weeks before you can start solids and other drinks. Would be better to introduce a cup instead of a bottle. Have you tried a cup for EBM or formula?

He's really not very keen on a soother. Been trying that for a while too. I try to make sure he definately wants a feed before I feed him. I've been advised by my hv that I can start solids at the end of this week as he is such a hungry baby and his weight gain is reducing.. Do you think this may change things?

Mears - I have also tries the Avent beaker with the magic spout, but I think the flow is to fast for him, although he doesn't mind having it in his mouth. Haven't, however, tried whe he's demanding a feed - only when he's playing and with water in it not milk

I read on your other thread that you were worried about leaving him for an hour for a haircut. I think when you are breastfeeding there is a danger that you think your baby won't survive without you but they will! Starting solids can sometimes make feeding more frequent because your baby may get more thirsty. If you can hang on i would wait till 6 months TBH. I didn't manage that until my 4th baby and she actually started spaving her feeds more at about 24 weeks, before she started solids. She demanded more feeds at the stage you are at but that was her increasing my supply. I rode it out and just fed her more frequently, including at night, and the feeds spaced again. With my other babies I started solids between 20 and 24 weeks. If i had left it till 26 weeks I am sure they would have done the same.
You have breastfed for 19 weeks - only 7 weeks to go till introducing other foods. It really isn't that long if you can manage. Once you start solids and introduce other drinks, the dependency on you reduces so in turn you will find you have more freedom. The next thing you know is that your baby doesn't want breastfeeds anymore and then you miss them.
I think what I am trying to reassure you is that this stage does not last forever though you feel as though it does.
You are doing brilliantly well to still be breastfeeding. Your baby will master a cup - probably faster than a teat and then you will be onto the next stage.
Try and catch up on rest during the day if you can. Is there anyone around who can take him out for a walk so that you can just have some time to yourself?

Not really.. You are being very sepportive. Thank you so much. 4 children - that's great. I haven't yet got the courage to consider a second.. Did you exclusively breast feed? I have to admit that I have been very worried for a while now about how I will ever wean him off as he loves it so much. Ironic really, as I worries so much in the beginning that I wouldn't be able to breast feed.

Yes I did exclusively breastfeed. I did go back to work part time though and I did not have a problem getting any of my babies to take a bottle of EBM. I never gave a bottle when I was home though. I also breastfed discretely wherever I went so I didn't feel restricted. I had a few friends who had babies at the same time and we all supported each other.I also had no problem weaning babies either. Stopped feeding DS1 at 11months (have regretted that as I learned more over the years). DS2 was 10 months (I was pregnant again and fetlt hellish). DS3 was 14 months and my last baby DD was 15 months. She self weaned and I was devastated because I wanted to continue feeding.
Don't worry about how long you are going to feed because you cannot really plan it. Just go with the flow so to speak

I hear what you're saying and I'm sure you're right, but I'm exhausted.. I'm starting to feel quite down with all of this now

shish - having a baby is the most exhausting thing in the world. If you are having disrupted =nights, are you catching up at all during the day? I think this is one of the major factors that women overlook. There is no magic cure to make a baby sleep at night but there are times that they are asleep during the day and mums usually use that time to catch up with other household work instead of having a nap.

Do you have a partner around at all? Do you have any family or friends? Utilise them to help you. As I said before he will not starve if he is away from you for a couple of hours. I think this is one of the biggest hurdles new mothers find hard to get over. Try not to let it all get you down. What you need is to get some more sleep to help you feel more able to cope.

I personally do not think starting solids now will make a lot of difference but if you feel that is what you want to try then do it. As I said before you are doing brilliantly well. You make the decisions that are right for you. You might find that you will feel more relaxed about it which will make your baby more relaxed. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I'm sure you're right about resting, but he often only takes short half-hour naps, so it's not really very long for me to get settled and get any sleep. So, I end up doing what you said and catch upon housework or sit at the copmuter!!