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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

How to know breast is empty?

26 replies

blankfornames · 06/03/2015 17:43

Hi there, have a 13 day old little boy and am exclusively breast feeding. I'm really paranoid that he's sleeping too much and not feeding enough. How can I tell when to change to the other breast? Im afraid that I'll change too soon before he gets the hind milk or that the breast he's on is emotying out.
Thanks

OP posts:
Showy · 06/03/2015 17:49

Are you familiar with the website kellymom? Do you have real life support in the form of a trained breastfeeding counsellor or breastfeeding group or a decent and trained health visitor.

There are quite a lot of misconceptions in your post. For example, the foremilk/hindmilk thing is not quite as simple as you describe. You don't have to keep the baby on the breast for a designated amount of time to get to the hindmilk. It's a myth. Plus, your breasts do not empty of milk. They make milk as you feed the baby and never empty. Think of it as a river, not a pond.

The way to know when to switch is when the baby naturally comes off the breast or with mine when the sucking and swallowing slowed right down.

The best way to gauge that the baby is getting milk is how they are. So are they having lots of wet nappies and soft, yellow poo regularly. Are they having periods of being alert? Are they gaining weight?

How often are you feeding atm too?

TarkaTheOtter · 06/03/2015 17:50

Assuming ok weight gain, not prem, generally well...

I wouldn't worry too much about fore milk/hindmilk - it's a bit of an outdated concept. The milk does change in composition during a feed but it's not an abrupt change. Offer one side until baby falls asleep. If baby doesn't fall asleep, wait until he comes off then offer other side. Or you can wait until baby seems like he's no longer actively sucking and swap. It's very unlikely that you will swap "too frequently"

How long is he going between feeds? Assuming he is healthy and gaining weight well he will wake when hungry. Personally I wouldn't let him go longer than 2hrs during the day without a feed in the hope of stretching out a longer period between feeds at night but that's not a rule just what worked for me.

Allstoppedup · 06/03/2015 17:51

Apparently the 'fore milk/hind milk' theory has been discredited so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

As long as your DS is having wet/dirty nappies and is gaining weight it's very unlikely that your breasts are empty. Once your milk is in they can start to feel fairly 'empty' but they will still be producing milk.

I offered DS both breasts each feed and found he took what he needed. If you are demand feeding just look for your DSs feeding cues and offer the breast as often as possible.

Newborns do sleep a lot so try not to worry. Sounds like you are doing a great job, getting established in BF is such a worrying time! I worried that my supply had gone every day but DS is currently attached to a boob 14 months later! Grin

meandjulio · 06/03/2015 17:53

Does your baby have jaundice? If he does, then you do need to make sure he feeds often, like, often - I was told every 3 hours and I think this is an absolute minimum, even when they have spent the night feeding every 45 minutes, little horrors loves. Get specialist advice if jaundice is involved.

BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 17:55

Firstly a breast can't be empty. Think about a dripping tap - there is always milk in there, it's just that it comes out more quickly at first because you've been waiting a while.

Hang on I know three great links, let me find them :)

Good rule of thumb is to offer one breast until they lose interest or come off, wind, offer the other, if they don't take it don't worry. After the second if they come off but are still rooting you can go back to the first again, but this is not typical at 13 days old. At that age, my son only drank from one breast per feed.

Showy · 06/03/2015 18:02
BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 18:03

Just a couple of extra thoughts.

Has he regained his birth weight and were you advised to wake him after any amount of time to feed?

When he is awake, is he alert? (It's normal for newborns to only be able to stay awake for about 30 minutes at a time, but if he's sleepy when awake, that could be a concern).

How many times a day is he feeding and how many times do you have to change his nappy in a day (24hrs)?

Showy · 06/03/2015 18:03

WinkGrin

In all seriousness, Bertie gives good links. As ever.

BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 18:03

Blush I like reading.

BreeVDKamp · 06/03/2015 18:10

Oh this is so helpful, I'm v confused by all this breastfeeding lark!

BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 18:16

It is confusing when you first start! Everyone seems to have conflicting advice. Stick with mumsnet, analytical armadillo and kellymom online for good information. In real life, La Leche League, NCT and ABM (association of breastfeeding mothers) are good for well informed advice.

Be sceptical of advice from relatives, especially older ones, midwives, GPs, health visitors and anybody who calls themselves an infant feeding specialist, unless they are an IBCLC (international board certified lactation consultant - anybody can call themselves a Lactation Consultant but not all of them are IBCLC).

Midwives and health visitors are sometimes well informed and sometimes outdated. If in doubt double check against one of the other sources.

StaircaseAtTheUniversity · 06/03/2015 18:19

Just to put my two penneth in- I ebf til 6 months and still giving her bf now at 8 months. I got mastitis when she was 4 weeks old in my right breast and my supply never came back properly on that side, so I just fed her off the left. It was fine. Never seemed to make a difference and had more than enough milk.

nousernamesleft · 06/03/2015 18:38

I bf twins (now 15 months and still bf), and they have a side each - ds has left side, dd right. They've never had two sides at a feed, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Mine have thrived on a side eac.

FoodPorn · 06/03/2015 18:39

I used to wonder this all the time with my DS and I still don't know the answer!

My understanding was/is that it is important to have the baby clear one breast per feed otherwise you are at risk of mastitis. I was also told to wait until he lets go and then offer him the other side. Well I waited, and waited, and waited and he would have stayed on forever if I hadn't stopped him! So in that situation, when do you switch sides?

I ended up just feeding him from one side until he was about 10 months when one day he found the other breast and then kept switching sides every couple of minutes and I just let him get on with it.

I'm pregnant with DC2 so wondering about this myself at the moment and I'm thinking to pick a period of time like 10/15 minutes and then switch over with my thinking being that if DC2 is like DC1 he/she will in any case feed for so long on the second breast that he/she will clear that one if not the first (and will hopefully feed for less time overall because he/she will get milk from the second breast more quickly).

BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 19:29

nouser - that's great if it's what was right for your DC. But every mother should follow her own baby because they are all different. For example, encouraging feeding from only one side is called "block nursing" and is a technique to reduce supply in the case of oversupply. It's OK to follow as a pattern if that is what the baby is doing, but it's not a good idea to generalise that to all babies and hence encourage it over and above what they want, unless you have been specifically advised to (e.g. block nursing.)

FoodPorn - What you did sounds fine. It sounds like perhaps advice got confused somewhere. Milk "left" in the breast shouldn't cause mastitis, a build up of milk can, but more usually it's caused by stopping feeding too suddenly or drastically cutting down. It's OK to let them just have one side if that's what they want.

It's not a good idea to restrict feeding times - see my first link, which explains why much better :)) (I don't think you need to read the others.)

AnythingNotEverything · 06/03/2015 19:35

Lots of great advice above OP - and you're right, there's more to bf than it looks like from the outset.

The only thing I'd add is that if you think he hasn't had enough or needs to try the other side, but is too sleepy (I think the sucking action is so lovely for them it's a bit hypnotic, and combined with a filling tummy they do like to snooze on the job), don't feel bad about changing his nappy to wake him enough to take the other side.

Lots of babies only take one side per feeds I equally don't worry f he won't take the second. Your baby, your boobs, your supply - you choose what's best.

Congratulations! I'm due in June and can't wait to feed again Smile

lavendersun · 06/03/2015 19:50

OP, after a dodgy start (born at 29 weeks and pumping every three hours for 5 months), I BF for nearly 3 years and I didn't know the answer to your question.

Kelly mom was a good resource for me. I worked on a 'if she cries feed her and alternate breasts' theory, simple enough even for me.

I wouldn't discount the list of people above just because they didn't have certain letters after their names either, there are good and bad practitioners in any field, a GP who has struggled with establishing BF could be a great source of advice and experience, just like anyone else on the list.

Congratulations Flowers, well done for establishing BF, it isn't always easy.

BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 20:46

I didn't say always assume that they are wrong, some are very informed, but the problem is that a lot of them aren't, they are not required to have breastfeeding training.

It does not hurt to double check information, from any source, but it's helpful to know which are reliable sources and which are not necessarily reliable.

Original poster
blankfornames · 06/03/2015 22:23

Thanks so much everyone. Some great advice there. He definitely doesn't have jaundice and has a few wakeful half hours throughout the day but generally sleeps.
Today for example, he fed from 4am to 5am, half hour feed at 8am, 12 till 1, 5.30 to after 6 and has just finished a feed now that started at 9.30. I'm allowing him dictate when he feeds.
He hasn't been weighed since he was 6 days old and he was almost back up at his birth weight.

I've his 2 wk check up on Monday and I suppose Im worried that things on the feeding front aren't going as they should...from a medical point of view! Nearly feel that it is me being judged...not his weight!

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 06/03/2015 22:37

Sounds pretty textbook to me :) What is it in particular that you're worried about, duration of feeds, spacing, sleeping amount? Newborns really do sleep something like 20 hours a day and their wakeful periods are short.

TarkaTheOtter · 06/03/2015 22:38

If his weight isn't going on well you have an easy solution - feed more frequently. It sounds like things are going pretty well. From the sounds of it he feeds less than an average newborn but if he's gaining weight well that's fine. If he's not, try squeezing in some more feeds during the day.

Original poster
blankfornames · 06/03/2015 22:40

Thanks Bertie. I suppose Im wondering whether I should be waking him more frequently for a feed and also he might only feed for 5 mins then fall asleep and I dont tend to count that as a feed.

OP posts:
NickyEds · 07/03/2015 08:54

A short-ish five minute feed can count. Almost at birth weight at 6 days old is a sure sign that feeding is going well. Weight gain, no jaundice, periods of alertness, wet and dirty nappies. All sound like your doing really wellSmile.

Micah · 07/03/2015 09:04

It sounds like it's going great :)

One thing I will add is you don't have to get him weighed, or even see a hv. If you are happy and clinic just makes you anxious or worried, don't go!

I had a perfectly healthy, but diddy, bf baby. One hv gave me all sorts of crap "advice" and had me really worried about failure to thrive. Happened to see another hv, who said she looked absolutely fine and to stop weighing, and bring her back only if I was worried. Guess what, all her weight issues went away immediately!